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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ricky recordo wrote: | My studio expenditures over the last two years have exceeded the cost of the OASYS 88, but in my opinion it has been money rather well-allocated.
It's amazing how easily a couple of new well-fed Macs and a few dedicated synths can make "OASYS envy" a non-issue 
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Have to say, I'd prefer one OASYS to a big, low-budget menagerie. Or, better yet, an OASYS plus just a few other well-chosen, best-quality instruments.
People come down on different sides of the quantity vs. quality issue. I'm generally on the quality side, myself.
- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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ricky recordo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | ricky recordo wrote: | My studio expenditures over the last two years have exceeded the cost of the OASYS 88, but in my opinion it has been money rather well-allocated.
It's amazing how easily a couple of new well-fed Macs and a few dedicated synths can make "OASYS envy" a non-issue
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Have to say, I'd prefer one OASYS to a big, low-budget menagerie. Or, better yet, an OASYS plus just a few other well-chosen, best-quality instruments.
People come down on different sides of the quantity vs. quality issue. I'm generally on the quality side, myself.
- Dan |
Yeah Dan, I guess that - for example - your Oasys' "Wurlie" piano sounds trump the real deal that I keep in my "low-budget menagerie" every day. I got both of my Wurlies for about 150 US dollars for the pair of them out of a bait beer and Wurlie shop in Texas, but I don't think that the low cost (or vendor for that matter) automatically relegates them to "low quality" status. What a shithole that store was BTW, but we needed beer, and were in a dry county. The nearest beer store was about a 20 minute drive down the backroads and just happened to have two Wurlies, some old organs and a guitar made out of a bedpan. No s**t... literally! Call it karma if you will... (lower case karma).
Anyway, I digress...
Running YellowTools Premium Suite on a "low-budget" 2.8 dual core Intel Mac probably really blows as well when compared to running some linux apps on an - ahem - "established" pentium chip. For example, YT's Candy saxes are surely chewed up and spit out by the big O's super-low-aliasing saxes.
I'm not sure "high price" always translates into "the best quality". I'm very quality-conscious as well, but hey - the more the merrier!
Plus, try getting a room full of musicians together to jam on your OASYS, and then send them to my cheapass menagerie where everybody gets to play the great grandpappy version of Musical Chairs (well, more like musical stools - and no stool sample jokes please  ) on my current "low-budget=low-quality" Korgs: M3, Trinity, Wavestation SR, X5DR, M1REX, Electribe R Mk ll, ih, Pandora PX3... as well as on all the other equally "low-budget=low-quality" bits and pieces I have kickin' around the place, and we'll compare notes.
Come to think of it, Dan - were you not involved in designing some of those cheap "low-budget=low-quality" pieces I've mentioned above? Somehow, I can't imagine you contributing to the design of a "low-budget" instrument after reading your post! Clearly you've refined your tastes (and most gracefully so) with age!
Regardless, it usually comes down to different needs for different deeds... it's all good! 
For the guys who haven't tried YellowTools' stuff yet, Sweetwater carries the YellowTools "low-budget" line here: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Yellow_Tools
Did Sweetwater mention "outstanding quality" and "bang for the buck" in the opening blurb? Why I do believe they did!
Can the two co-exist? Sweetwater seems to think so. (Maybe it's all about sales though.)
Sweetwater loves OASYS too! (Maybe it's all about sales though.)
Ain't it a great time for us to be making our music? Sales.....
... ya gotta love salesmen... show me a great cost-effective product that will enhance my music-making experience and I'm sold!
Korg's M3 comes to mind... |
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ricky recordo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I just dug up my Korg G4 stompbox rotary speaker sim.
This "low-budget" beauty can turn even my old shitbox Yamaha DX7 into a Hammond B3 contender. A PEDAL box. Amazing! Internet rumour also has it that the G4 distortion section uses the same innards as the original Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer pedal once did.
True or false? The Korg guys will know.
Wait a sec.
I'm almost ashamed now to admit that the G4 was another of my "low-budget" aquisitions... so it's probably not the wonderbox I'm hearing after all.
Damn these tin ears!
But hey - I suppose we really ought to read this outrageous farce for ourselves before we pass judgement:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/sep94/korgg4.html
Thoughts, Dan? |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| ricky recordo wrote: | | Yeah Dan, I guess that - for example - your Oasys' "Wurlie" piano sounds trump the real deal that I keep in my "low-budget menagerie" every day. |
You do have a wurlitzer. But, at least according to your video tour - no acoustic piano; no rhodes; no clav; no classic analogs (real or virtual); etc.
I like the Wavestation SR, which I've been told does qualify as a classic digital synth; I'm proud of the small amount that I contributed to it, and I have one in my rack, but of course its sound & capabilities are now far eclipsed in the OASYS.
As far as whether or not the OASYS would be better for a wurlie track - probably not, but possibly so, depending on what you were looking for and the state of the "real" instrument. Many old ones aren't in that good of a shape, which is what I would expect from a bargain find. Hopefully you were lucky!
All that said, I must admit that I don't use wurlie sounds very often...
Remember, btw, what I wrote:
"Have to say, I'd prefer one OASYS to a big, low-budget menagerie. Or, better yet, an OASYS plus just a few other well-chosen, best-quality instruments."
That's just my personal aesthetic. Others will have their own, and that's fine.
You seem to be implying that I've said that being cheap automatically makes something bad, and that being expensive automatically makes it good. I haven't ever said any such thing, of course.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Running YellowTools Premium Suite on a "low-budget" 2.8 dual core Intel Mac probably really blows as well when compared to running some linux apps on an - ahem - "established" pentium chip. For example, YT's Candy saxes are surely chewed up and spit out by the big O's super-low-aliasing saxes. |
I haven't made a direct comparison, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that was so. For instance, a collaborator came in a while ago with some tracks which used Vienna Orchestra instruments, and ended up using the OASYS instead, because it sounded & played better.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Come to think of it, Dan - were you not involved in designing some of those cheap "low-budget=low-quality" pieces I've mentioned above? |
I've worked on the Wavestation line, the original OASYS keyboard, the OASYS PCI, and the new OASYS. That's all. 
(Plus the 1212 I/O, of course, but that wasn't a synth.)
| ricky recordo wrote: | | ... ya gotta love the online salesmen |
Indeed! Even if that hypothetical salesmen was, for instance, promoting their studio & defending their gear decisions. It's a beautiful thing!
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Internet rumour also has it that the G4 distortion section uses the same innards as the original Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer pedal once did. |
"Internet rumor" should learn the difference between analog and digital circuits, it seems.
- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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ricky recordo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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No, Dan. I have two Wurlitzers... twins. Both are mechanically immaculate.
The "bargain finds" came out of a college in Texas in the 80s, were bought by the bait shop guy, and went into storage in the bait shop for the next 20 years or so. One does have a funky amp section. I suppose you'll require photo/video/audio evidence to confirm their condition, and even the existence of the second Wurlie... Stay tuned. Your OASYS will pale in comparison, guaranteed, to twin Wurlies flying in formation.
My acoustic pianos, Dan, are back at the house with the other Wurlie. Late 70s Petrof 6'6"" grand, early 90s Samick upright. I have 32 stairs up to the planned Hammond/piano room, ( I have an M3 and Leslie 700 to fit in as well) so all in good time. In the meantime, Ivory and Pianoteq sub in just fine!
BTW, what does Korg know about acoustic pianos anyway? Apparently, not much. Play any Korg instrument ever created for the goods on that. Kurzweil's pianos kick Korg's ass. Roland's pianos kick Korg's ass. Yamaha's pianos kick Korg's ass. Casio's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ketron's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ancient Ensoniq pianos kick Korg's ass. GarageBand's pianos kick Korg's ass. M-Audio's pianos kick Korg's ass.
Get those "piano" envelopes sorted out (as if that'll happen) then maybe we should talk about pianos. Even Korg's dedicated digital pianos can't get those simple values right. That's sooooo way far beyond lame. Why even bother with pianos anymore?
I have no Clavinet though, you're right about that. Shall I hang my head in shame?
No Rhodes anymore either. I get them passing through here now and then though.
Does my studio suck because I lack either? Most visitors don't seem to think so. My Roland RD-250s and AAS' Lounge Lizard both eliminate the need for a Rhodes on the floor. I don't really care for the clavinet myself, but I can get the sound when needed, and kick your OASYS' ass with the results (if the moon turns blue and I should need a clavinet) with my "low-budget" setup. Even GarageBand's clavs will kick the OASYS' attempts into the dustbin, STR-1 et al.
My "real" classic synths are few, but I do actaually have many virtual synths in software form (I didn't "tour" the Macs in the video, as you know). Some are valiant attempts at re-creating "low-budget" boxes like the Wavestation, Polysix and MS-20, others are repros of genuine classics.
BTW, if the Polysix and wavestation qualifiy as "classic" synths, then I guess my Juno 106, DX7, JX-8P etc are at least in the same ballpark.
BTW I think it's kinda sad when you have to search my choppy video to gloat about what I don't have in the studio at the moment, while blatantly ignoring the fact that Korg is for the most part a "low-budget" manufacturer of some of the stuff I do own.
Re G4: Are you confirming that there is no analog distortion section? |
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ricky recordo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Oh yes Dan, a thought regarding the Vienna Orchestra strings vs. OASYS strings... Vienna's brilliant string samples seem to be an 'acquired taste' for some, including yourself and your collaborator, being unprocessed as they are. Some people might even prefer the reverbed strings in a Casio CTK900 over the dry Vienna sounds.
Regarding YT Candy, why not go ahead and make that direct comparison with OASYS' saxophone patches, and give us your thoughts? You might indeed be surprised, but not in the way you expected!
Last edited by ricky recordo on Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3036
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | You seem to be implying |
You are wrong, Dan! Ricky NEVER implies anything!! He said so!! |
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ricky recordo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I thought I felt a breeze coming on...
Care to meet me in the cage again? |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3036
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Ricky,
You can't really make a fair cost comparison between any hardware workstation and a software package, since a software package by itself is just a cardboard box with some disks inside.
There is no question that software instruments are good values, since once you buy a keyboard, audio interface, and good computer those items can be re-used at no additional cost.
Regarding some of the products you mention, I wouldn't consider YT Candy to be "low-budget" for software that only covers saxes.
You also can't compare the cost of older/used hardware to new hardware. I think I paid $2,500-3,000 for my M1 back when but if I were to buy that same keyboard today on eBay it would probably cost $800.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Oh yes Dan, a thought regarding the Vienna Orchestra strings vs. OASYS strings... Vienna's brilliant string samples seem to be an 'acquired taste' for some, including yourself and your collaborator, being unprocessed as they are. Some people might even prefer the reverbed strings in a Casio CTK900 over the dry Vienna sounds. |
I am pretty sure Dan is knowledgeable about effects processing. While the VSL strings are very nice, there are some people who just don't like them. For example, some people think they sound too "European orchestra" and prefer more lush "Hollywood" strings.
Also, once nice aspect of workstation strings are they are primarily pre-mixed string sections. Many times it is easier to get a better sound out of of mixed strings than having to orchestrally compose your own by building up different instruments. Genre also is important -- I'm not too sure how well VSL would fit into a rock track.
| ricky recordo wrote: |
BTW, what does Korg know about acoustic pianos anyway? Apparently, not much. Play any Korg instrument ever created for the goods on that. Kurzweil's pianos kick Korg's ass. Roland's pianos kick Korg's ass. Yamaha's pianos kick Korg's ass. Casio's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ketron's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ancient Ensoniq pianos kick Korg's ass. GarageBand's pianos kick Korg's ass. M-Audio's pianos kick Korg's ass. |
I think you got a little carried away here. I own a Yamaha GranTouch piano and used to own a Kurzweil PC2, and I think the OASYS piano is excellent. M-Audio's piano isn't very good.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Care to meet me in the cage again? |
In real life I would snap you in two like a twig... sorry but its true.  |
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peter m. mahr
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| ricky recordo wrote: | No, Dan. I have two Wurlitzers... twins. Both are mechanically immaculate.
The "bargain finds" came out of a college in Texas in the 80s, were bought by the bait shop guy, and went into storage in the bait shop for the next 20 years or so. One does have a funky amp section. I suppose you'll require photo/video/audio evidence to confirm their condition, and even the existence of the second Wurlie... Stay tuned. Your OASYS will pale in comparison, guaranteed, to twin Wurlies flying in formation.
My acoustic pianos, Dan, are back at the house with the other Wurlie. Late 70s Petrof 6'6"" grand, early 90s Samick upright. I have 32 stairs up to the planned Hammond/piano room, ( I have an M3 and Leslie 700 to fit in as well) so all in good time. In the meantime, Ivory and Pianoteq sub in just fine!
BTW, what does Korg know about acoustic pianos anyway? Apparently, not much. Play any Korg instrument ever created for the goods on that. Kurzweil's pianos kick Korg's ass. Roland's pianos kick Korg's ass. Yamaha's pianos kick Korg's ass. Casio's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ketron's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ancient Ensoniq pianos kick Korg's ass. GarageBand's pianos kick Korg's ass. M-Audio's pianos kick Korg's ass.
Get those "piano" envelopes sorted out (as if that'll happen) then maybe we should talk about pianos. Even Korg's dedicated digital pianos can't get those simple values right. That's sooooo way far beyond lame. Why even bother with pianos anymore?
I have no Clavinet though, you're right about that. Shall I hang my head in shame?
No Rhodes anymore either. I get them passing through here now and then though.
Does my studio suck because I lack either? Most visitors don't seem to think so. My Roland RD-250s and AAS' Lounge Lizard both eliminate the need for a Rhodes on the floor. I don't really care for the clavinet myself, but I can get the sound when needed, and kick your OASYS' ass with the results (if the moon turns blue and I should need a clavinet) with my "low-budget" setup. Even GarageBand's clavs will kick the OASYS' attempts into the dustbin, STR-1 et al.
My "real" classic synths are few, but I do actaually have many virtual synths in software form (I didn't "tour" the Macs in the video, as you know). Some are valiant attempts at re-creating "low-budget" boxes like the Wavestation, Polysix and MS-20, others are repros of genuine classics.
BTW, if the Polysix and wavestation qualifiy as "classic" synths, then I guess my Juno 106, DX7, JX-8P etc are at least in the same ballpark.
BTW I think it's kinda sad when you have to search my choppy video to gloat about what I don't have in the studio at the moment, while blatantly ignoring the fact that Korg is for the most part a "low-budget" manufacturer of some of the stuff I do own.
Re G4: Are you confirming that there is no analog distortion section? |
If more or less everything in your opinion kicks OASYS' ass, why do you then post in a OASYS forum?
peter |
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curvebender
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 784
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If more or less everything in your opinion kicks OASYS' ass, why do you then post in a OASYS forum? |
Pa dum dum pschhh!!!
_________________
Paul: Don't be nervous.
John: I'M NOT NERVOUS!!! |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3036
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| peter m. mahr wrote: | | If more or less everything in your opinion kicks OASYS' ass, why do you then post in a OASYS forum? |
Ricky thinks the OASYS is overpriced, and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
and he wants to tell everyone that...
In other words, why present your opinion once when you can present it 500 times? |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ricky recordo wrote: | BTW, what does Korg know about acoustic pianos anyway? Apparently, not much.
Play any Korg instrument ever created for the goods on that. Kurzweil's pianos kick Korg's ass. Roland's pianos kick Korg's ass. Yamaha's pianos kick Korg's ass. Casio's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ketron's pianos kick Korg's ass. Ancient Ensoniq pianos kick Korg's ass. GarageBand's pianos kick Korg's ass. M-Audio's pianos kick Korg's ass. |
This seems a little hostile.
As noted previously, I have Ivory as well, and like it very much - but I don't reach for it very often nowadays, with the OASYS close at hand.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | BTW I think it's kinda sad when you have to search my choppy video to gloat about what I don't have in the studio at the moment, while blatantly ignoring the fact that Korg is for the most part a "low-budget" manufacturer of some of the stuff I do own. |
There was no searching; I just watched the video you'd posted to promote your studio. For years, you've been saying that you have better ways to spend your money than on the OASYS, and that you have the OASYS "covered" by your other gear. I watched your video, and I've read your descriptions of your software arsenal, and I just don't see how that's the case.
Keep in mind that I didn't bring up this subject; instead, you yourself have done so, repeatedly.
I also don't understand what you mean in your comment about Korg, or what you were wanting me to respond to. Korg makes products across a broad spectrum of price-points, with corresponding differences in features and quality, appropriate for different users & uses. I don't see what problem there might be with that...?
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Oh yes Dan, a thought regarding the Vienna Orchestra strings vs. OASYS strings... |
It wasn't the strings. You had mentioned sax, and so - with woodwinds on my mind - I was specifically remembering an exposed solo flute.
| ricky recordo wrote: | | Re G4: Are you confirming that there is no analog distortion section? |
I don't think that there is, no. I think it's running entirely on a DSP.
- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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silverdragonsound
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 512
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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An interesting side note on acoustic piano sounds. For the record first I still prefer the real thing almost all the time. Something interesting did happen with a few clients over the last two months. One on my clients has a Roland RD700Sx and the other client has a Kurzweil K2661. Both swear by their piano sounds. I took both their mixes and played them using the Oasys piano and both wound up recording with the Oasys piano sound. They are now Oasys lusters. It seems the more people/clients I let here the Oasys, the more of them want to incorporate it into their mix.
_________________
And there was this one time at band camp...... |
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MarkF786
Full Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Guys, stop feeding the trolls. They thrive on attention, and in this case what better attention could Ricky hope for than from representatives of Korg? You're above wasting your time on this guy.
Mark |
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