Korg Forums

RANTARAVE · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 12

im probably going to get a new keyboard for christamas and i am woundering what would be better a K2600 or a M3 because they are in about the same price range

people say the Korg M3 is a better Workstation

others say the K2600 is a better Keyboard/synth

I am mainly going to play Dream Theater stuff (Leads/strings/pads)

This is my first experience with a real keybaord (now im just using Korg Digital Edition Korg digital piano)

but i am really good with computer hardware/software and dont mind programming in patches which would be good for me?

I was going to try just using my laptop+softsynths but with DT stuff you need to switch patches very quickly

kimu · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:40 am Post subject:

hi Rantarave,

besides K2600 or M3, for kind of stuff you want to play, i suggest also to take a look to Roland or Access Virus product. new V-synth GT and new Virus TI are in the same price range, the first is a Hybrid rompler/"kind-of-virtual-analog" with also phisical modelling, the latter is a pure virtual analog. both come with sw editor, and offers high editing features for sound design.

Other possible choice could be a clavia lead 2x (or maybe the announced nordwave) or a real analogue as the Andromeda.

let us know your choice. Razz

Lorenzo · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:06 am Post subject:

in first look at here: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27044
I've wrote a little comparison between m3 and k2661

then saied this there are some points that I should analyze about your case:
1 you're going to play lots of dream theater songs
2 you never had a workstation

so talking about 1:
a) dream theater didn't have only rudess in their setup... and, since I used to play in 2 DT cover band I can tell you that many of the song we used to play was written and played by moore or sherinian, so no kurzweil at all there.
b) many rudess sounds came from triton rack and external samples, so I think he uses kurzweil only for a few sounds like leads, the piano, and maybe some synths and backing guitar sounds.
c) if you like the liquid T-Lead sound, trust me: I try to replicate it on triton, motif es rack, virusb, moss... I always got good results, but the real thing sounds different.
d) rudess use the kurzweil full expanded so if you really need to have all his sounds prepare yourself to spend $$$... I really don't know about there... but here in Italy a full expanded kurzweil costs FAAAAAR more than an M3
e) now rudess use an Oasys... so no more kurzweil sounds
f) kurzweil doesn't suffer of cutted off notes when you switch between sounds

about point 2
a) kurzweil IS difficult to be programmed so if you need to create a whole bank of DT sounds be prepared to spend lots of hard time to spend on the machine, you have no limits in emulation of old sounds though
b) m3 is easily programmable and you'll enjoy it very much for this... cos we are musicians and I think that we should like more to play than to program (arg.... I like more programming...)

some other considerations:
1) kurzweil is a really powerfull master keyboard, and its OS allows you to do things you can't even imagine. This means that you have to study hard pages and pages of manuals and after that you'll have to start again...
2) m3 has tons of samples so if you need a sound I think you can find it easly in the preset, or you need to tweak them only a little
3) with m3 you can fogot about synthesis... if you like synthesis and like to program your own synth sounds forget about m3: the m3 allows you to shape internal rom samples (ok, external too...) with a few filters, I didn't try the radias option though...
4) I've saied this for sure but I want to repeat it... Kurzweil IS COMPLEX. If I had to buy my first workstation again I would immediately chose the M3. Anyway parameters in the kurzweil are ALL where you look for them so I can say the os is simple BUT its complexity makes the programming work VERY difficult.

Also remember that if you buy the m3 you won't hear the need to buy a kurzweil cos you simply don't know what you're missing... untill (and IF) you'll want to go deep into synthesis and sound shaping but in this case you will have to pay for another full workstation.
If you go for the kurzweil you'll curse me due to the fact it will give you HARD TIME to be programmed and you'll miss the touch screen and the whole preset palette of the m3 but you'll have to buy only the m3 module or a triton rack and not a whole new workstation.

Saied this I won't vote here cos I think that both IS the best choice... and if you have the time to try them, take the time before to do it just to read a little the quick start manual of both and you won't regret your choice.

Sorry for the long post but I think this can be usefull.
Regards, Lorenzo
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kimu · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:30 am Post subject:

Hi Lorenzo,

very nice and objective comparison Razz

let me just add a question and something about EXB-RADIAS.

first the question

i have read several times in different mag or webzine that actually Rudess uses Oasys only as a master key/controller, at least during live gig. btw on his site is listed all the instrument he uses live and in studio.

then, about the EXB-RADIAS:
it is an expansion module that gives to M3 a virtual analog capabilities. it adds a new bank of preset program (not so good as preset imho) but no preset combi even if you can add up to 4 radias program to any combi.

Radias engine is based on MMT and it comes with 2 main oscillator with classical waves form plus PCM waves (but Shocked

there is no pulse width modulation for the square wave), 2 LFO, dual filter and many envelope generators. plus there is a virtual patchbay for routing modulation source/destination.

if you not stop to preset sound, but like to deal with subtractive synthesis, this is a very nice module for the M3 (even imho it does not reach the same quality of a VA as Novation or Virus) and really enhance possibilities for greating your own sound.

Lorenzo · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:49 am Post subject:

hi, about the radias... I never tried it so I can't talk about it...
about rudess I think that he doesn't use the oasys only as a master keyboard (=controller)... what they mean with master keyboard is that he uses as MAIN keyboard for his performances... then you can see on his site what he is also using for live and studio performance...
Regards, Lorenzo
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RANTARAVE · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 12

What has bettter factory sounds?

and which one can be tweaked to be better?

Lorenzo · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:52 am Post subject:

RANTARAVE · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 12

tired out the M3 and it was OK

pro's

joystick
touchscreen
that assignable chord pad thingy
ribbon
strings
keyboard feel

cons

stock organ didn't sound good
looks (they should of designed it like a mini OASYS instead of wood on sides)
weak lead patches
piano not spectacular
TOO MUCH DANCE PATCHES
The self programmed drums are not for me
couldn't really modify patches that much

we'll right now im think im going to go with K2600 but if the OASYS drops in price to 5000/6000 i will get it

right now i think the K2600 and the OASYS is overpriced, especially the K2600

LOL guys remember i am just a kid (14) so my budget it my parents budget

I still have to wait until christmas

Sina172 · Platinum Member Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 1194

........

Lorenzo · Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:09 am Post subject:

... and I can say the same for the K series... you think that it is overpriced? again, try it for a month and you'll change your mind...
I think you should just decide in this way now that you have tried both the keyboards: pick up the m3 cos it does cost less... both are great workstation and in any case you'll be happy with any of them.
regards, Lorenzo
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Sina172 · Platinum Member Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 1194

rfoshaug · Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:16 am Post subject:

I'm sure there's no need for getting so angry... Confused

This should be a civilized forum where people should be able to say their opinion without getting flamed or having their intelligence questioned.

Your posts in this thread, Sina, are rude. And I'm sure SHOUTING isn't really necessary as we can all hear (or read) you very well.

My advice: go back to your Oasys, play it, and cool down a bit before posting again. Unless it's the music genre that you play that is making you so aggressive... Laughing

RANTARAVE · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 12

OK OK I only said the OASYS was overpriced becuase i couldn't afford one but i would do anything to get one and yes $6000 will never happen

I was tired and i wasn't thinking about how the people who made it have to eat and support their famalies

(i posted at like 12:00)

I still havn't tried the K2600 because I can't find one

I needed to be called a noob

XVampireX · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject:

RANTARAVE, I think you did cause a little bit of havoc here. The reason Oasys is at the price it is, is because of what is going into it, and what it can do right now. Both Kurzweil K2600 and Korg Oasys have their strengths and weaknesses, that's why you get the one you see most fitted to your needs, not based on price. You will always have some sort of budget, so if you cannot afford the Korg Oasys but can afford Kurzweil K2600 then try to look into other same priced synthesizers and see if they do what you need it to do.

For example I can't afford the Oasys so I'm getting M3 first then when I get better at playing and can use what M3 offers me, I'll upgrade to the Oasys. Oasys is not for everyone, just like the K2600 is not for everyone...

rfoshaug: You never had something you were so enthusiastic about as to protect your feelings about it... Wait, uhm, that may actually mean insecurity about the product. But actually sometimes I think maybe even in Sina's case, it's about the will to show an "unenlightened" human the "light" Smile

And s/he didn't shout in my opinion, just tried to put emphasis on a lot of words Very Happy

Anyway, here's my 2c - See your budget and see what you need from your synthesizer.
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Kerzwhile · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject:

Uh No Bias here!! K2600!!!!!!!!!!!!! Angel

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MY Weapons of choice: K2600X, Oasys88, PC3X, K2661, V-Synth, MotifESR, ZR-76, TS-12, VFX, EPS16+,ESQ-1, ESQ-1R, Emu Xtreme Lead, SCI Six Trak, HR-16, Kurzweil Mark 150 Baby Grand and 2 D1600's synced!!!
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