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The M3 really needs more ---
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drama1
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Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: The M3 really needs more --- Reply with quote

PROGRAMS AND COMBI'S. After two months, I've come to the conclusion this board is capable of so much more than what we hear in the release set of programs and combis from Korg. It's almost like Korg intentionally loaded up the M3 with programs and combis with that WOW factor when you first hear the board in a store. But after playing for a while, very little is useful in live performance. This board really needs a lot more piano and organ variations, way more string variations and even the Radias programs sound great when played by themselves, but in the context of a band, they're useless. This is just my opinion, but when I went back to GC and played the XS, there were so many more programs that I felt would be way more relevant in a live setting. I've owned Korg boards for the past ---what--- thirty years? I'm starting to come to the conclusion the M3 is not geared for live performance, and I bought the M373 specifically for live performance. I don't care about Karma-no offense, Mr. Kay, I just prefer to play the keys rather than have software do most of it for me. I really hope Korg releases a bunch of new programs and combis for the M3 soon because I simply don't have time to programs sounds from the bottom up. I know, I know about tweaking current programs and that's fine, but at the price I paid, and I believe I received a good deal, I expected better performance programs. I'm going to give it a few more months with the M3, but I find myself constantly going back to my TritonPro for playing live. Hope you all don't mind me venting Rolling Eyes But I'm pretty close to picking up an XS and those things are butt-ugly, but the sound---well, I'm sure most all of you have played one. Later.
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shrike
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Join the club, drama1.
Every one of us program his own sounds. There is no way Korg or any other manufacturer would release keyboard with it's full potential already programmed. They give us many preset sounds that just point you to what keyboard is capable of, but for live gigs you have to make your own sounds.
M3 has many sounds that are set to play nice in Karma, but not for live gigs.
I agree with you it isn't suitable for live playing the moment you buy it.
Extreme came with much more useful sounds, but still it was the same thing.
About releasing new sets of sounds directly from Korg, I think you can forget about it. I hope I'm wrong, but...
There are download sections of different Korg forums, in this one also, but not many of those sounds are useful (I'm referring to my needs, maybe someone else would be very happy with those sounds).
M3 basically give you 320 MB of sampling RAM (with expansion) that you can use to sample real instruments and thats good about it. In my opinion, it's the only feature upgraded comparing to Extreme (Extreme can be maxed only to 96 MB), but everything else...no big deal. I also don't use Karma, so it hasn't any value to me. M3 also has 16 timbres in combinations, comparing to 8 timbres in Extreme, and that could be some advantage, but musicians who already programmed their combinations to work with 8 timbres and managed to play all needed sounds in those 8 timbres also won't benefit much with M3.
Many musicians which have Triton, especially Extreme, that plays live gigs, tried M3 and decided not to buy it.
I spend many hours programming Extreme, so doing all that on M3 all over again isn't something I want to do because I'll get the same sounds with some small improvements, if any.
Another thing, Extreme supports EXB MOSS, and M3 doesn't - big mistake.
Now, I don't want you, or anyone, to think of this post as something negative regarding M3, because I don't have anything against it. It just doesn't give me anything that I couldn't do on Extreme.
Regards and good luck with programming. Very Happy
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shrike
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing. When Triton was released, there were upgrades and new releases until it came to Triton Extreme.
Even older Korg keyboards went through similar process (T3, T3ex etc.).
I'll wait with this M3 and if Korg releases let's say M3pro or M3elite or M3 Extreme, I believe that it would be good keyboard, worth buying.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enjoy your XS
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drama1
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not getting the XS just yet. I know Stephen Kay talked of converting the Triton programs to M3 at one point, although I'm sure that's a lot of work so I'm not holding my breath. I think I'm more disappointed in myself Embarassed for not exploring the M3 more for live use than studio. Like I said, I'm not interested in Karma, but my TritonPro is beat to hell and I didn't want to spend any $ on an Extreme, even if I could find an EXpro, which I probably couldn't anyways. It just seemed logical to upgrade to an M373. I'm going to keep on working on programming the M3 and prey my Tritonpro hangs on for a while longer. Although I have to say that the Kurzweil PC3 is looking mighty good, especially for live performance. I love the seemless program and setup changes and one touch quick access switching of programs/setups, none of which the M3 or XS has for live performance. Of course Kurz is notorious for delays in their products. We'll see, but as in another thread started here, the PC3 just might be an M3/XS killer.
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Bubba



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the PC-3 will sound great. But, I can't imagine not having an arpeggiator on board especially for drums. Could be wrong but I don't think it will have one. To me it just adds so much to the creative process when writing. I'm probably going to purchase the M3 but I've also looked heavily into the XS. I suppose it's just personal taste but the M3 just seems so much user friendly when it comes to programming with the overall layout of the OS. And for whatever reason, the sounds are so much more inspirational to me. But, you made me think. What if I make this big investment and get bored down the road? I can't imagine Korg not coming out with more combis and programs for this beast in the very near future. They're the master of tasteful programming, and I believe that's why they've been so successful over the years. I like the XS's performances but they just don't stir me like the M-3. Very Happy
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bkboy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xs is butt ugly? i don't know what you are smoking, but i think xs looks much more professional and of higher build quality than the fugly m3.

soundwise, i don't favor either, both have its strengths!

but i agree with you the m3 needs more. its empty (user) banks need to get filled. not everybody is skilled in programming. an os update soon?
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Trinity2112
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m3 is fugly? I totally dig it. And haven't any quality issues yet...knock on wood. But if I do, I'll be contacting Korg immediately. Dunno if they'll go the distance and replace the worn buttons since they'd have to gut the module to access the sprues. I hope that 2 year warranty covers cosmetic defects that COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!

I also dig the XS, except for the fact that there's no joystick and touchscreen. Let Yammy release a rack version and I'll grab one up in a heartbeat. I damn near bought an XS6 a few weeks ago, but decided to keep those funds tucked away for the big O.

M3 owners do have something to look forward to in the sound department. Korg will be releasing the expansion USB drives and the Radias combis. Plus, Kid Nepro will be releasing a new soundbank (w/new multisamples) in a few months. The demos, thus far, are interesting.
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cowtothesky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you were going to say that the M3 needed more cowbell.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drama1 wrote:
I'm not getting the XS just yet. I know Stephen Kay talked of converting the Triton programs to M3 at one point, although I'm sure that's a lot of work so I'm not holding my breath. I think I'm more disappointed in myself Embarassed for not exploring the M3 more for live use than studio. Like I said, I'm not interested in Karma, but my TritonPro is beat to hell and I didn't want to spend any $ on an Extreme, even if I could find an EXpro, which I probably couldn't anyways. It just seemed logical to upgrade to an M373. I'm going to keep on working on programming the M3 and prey my Tritonpro hangs on for a while longer. Although I have to say that the Kurzweil PC3 is looking mighty good, especially for live performance. I love the seemless program and setup changes and one touch quick access switching of programs/setups, none of which the M3 or XS has for live performance. Of course Kurz is notorious for delays in their products. We'll see, but as in another thread started here, the PC3 just might be an M3/XS killer.



oh, ok. The world awaits your decision
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kid_nepro_2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trinity2112 wrote:
M3 owners do have something to look forward to in the sound department. Korg will be releasing the expansion USB drives and the Radias combis. Plus, Kid Nepro will be releasing a new soundbank (w/new multisamples) in a few months. The demos, thus far, are interesting.


Thanks for the plug. Right, Proto Rock is on the way and it will have something for everyone.

Yeah, there are many ways one can go about programming for the M3. That's why I've decided to include programs as well as combis in our first set of sounds. The programs will be geared towards people who want to use the M3 in a live performance setting or want to build tracks from scratch. The combis are more for providing inspiration for recording or for those who would rather just jam along.

The 64 programs are now done and I'm currently working on the combis. In most of the programs I've left the drum track and Karma turned off which encourages you to explore what the patch sounds like without all that other stuff going on. If you want to use the drums and Karma just hit the switches and your into jam mode. The programs are perfect for a live gig or studio session. Lot's of keyboards, strings, pads, guitars, basses and leads. I'll be posting the sound list soon so if your interested bookmark the link below.

I've also just put online a new demo from one of the combis. It's called "Live At The Garden". It includes several of the new multi samples including some really cool crowd noise which gives the track a live concert feel. The guitar loop and tron strings are also new multi samples. There will be about 50 megs of new samples included in the collection.

A direct link to the MP3 is at:

http://www.kidnepro.com/Music/M3V1DEMO/liveatthegarden.mp3

or if you did not catch my last post you can find more info and program demos at;

http://www.kidnepro.com/KN/Korg/M3/korg-m3-v1.html

Enjoy!

Proton
Kid Nepro Sounds
http://www.kidnepro.com
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NuSkoolTone
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say the M3 needs more Good Samples in it.

They should have just put the whole OASYS ROM in it and Compressed it. Not just a few bits of it and some Triton filler (That's what it sounded like to me!)

I know this won't make me popular here, but the ROM in the M3 Simply is not competitive IMO. It's the other features and innovations that make it worth considering, but the recent quality issues and the price could also put some off.

Since we know there's not going to be more ROM added to the M3, we could hope for RAM sample expansions, but that tops out at 320 mb and most likely will not be compressed(?), so you'll never get the Oasys soundset, not even close! Not to mention the cost of those upgrades, which to me just makes it way too expensive once you add it up. Considering what you're actually getting that is. Might as well just save up for a used OASYS!

So I guess all Korg can do to convince the rest of us is drop the price!

It's too bad really, If Korg just put in the whole (2 year old) Oasys ROM set and kept the current price, I would have been able to overlook the M3's shortcomings and give it serious consideration.

Looking forward to Winter Namm and the Roland booth...If they show nothing interesting I'm getting an XS.
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cowtothesky
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you were going to say more cowbell
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Kerzwhile
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubba wrote:
I'm sure the PC-3 will sound great. But, I can't imagine not having an arpeggiator on board especially for drums. Could be wrong but I don't think it will have one. To me it just adds so much to the creative process when writing. I'm probably going to purchase the M3 but I've also looked heavily into the XS. I suppose it's just personal taste but the M3 just seems so much user friendly when it comes to programming with the overall layout of the OS. And for whatever reason, the sounds are so much more inspirational to me. But, you made me think. What if I make this big investment and get bored down the road? I can't imagine Korg not coming out with more combis and programs for this beast in the very near future. They're the master of tasteful programming, and I believe that's why they've been so successful over the years. I like the XS's performances but they just don't stir me like the M-3. Very Happy

Yes it will!! Wink Wait for the PC3!! Trust me! Razz
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GRod926



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:41 am    Post subject: you're not the only one Reply with quote

I've used Korg boards going back to my first synth, - the DW8000. I have an O1/W, and an Extreme and love them all so this is not a bash letter at all, - HOWEVER, I too felt that there were too few patches in this new, 'top-of-the-line' board from Korg. For the money, they should have waited and let the programmers make some more or convert a group of "best-of-triton" patches to include in the thing. Especially knowing the engines are not compatible for people who want to upgrade.

The reviewer from Sound on Sound made a similiar mention of there being a shortage of patches. He did say that the one's in there were great and I agree but there is no where near enough variation for live performance as you say. Particularly if you are doing covers.

I sat to play and listen, - I play in a R&B-dance-funk-hip-hop band and I was pretty surprised to see only a few variations of clavs, - same with the E.P.s

I mean it has all that space, why ship it with most of them empty?

I also use a MotifES and I noticed that Yamaha has, for free, the ES patches available to people upgrading to the XS. Granted, they are not using all of the new features of the XS but at least it is a base to tweak from. With the M3 you have to start from scratch.

Just my $.02
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