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I have sold the M3-73 keybed...
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promaster



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: I have sold the M3-73 keybed... Reply with quote

After many problems with velocity response with the M3 keyboard, I have sold the M3-73 keybed keeping the module only.
Now I control M3 from a XS and play really better with all feel and velocity (0-127).
Korg has failed with this new keybed... the triton series was really better and much more expressive.
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, most people would disagree with you.

Nearly all user reviews (and all pro reviews) think the 61/73 synth action is fantastic.
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promaster



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinHines wrote:
Unfortunately, most people would disagree with you.

Nearly all user reviews (and all pro reviews) think the 61/73 synth action is fantastic.


Good thing fot most people...but not for me Wink

I play keyboards from 30 years and the M3 keybed (61/73) is the worse "feel-response" synth-action ever tryed: is not possible to play with full velocity range (0-127) with any velocity curve.

Im not a karma user... i play with al my 10 fingers.
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sani
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Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Croatia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinHines wrote:
Unfortunately, most people would disagree with you.

Nearly all user reviews (and all pro reviews) think the 61/73 synth action is fantastic.


To be honest, it is good, but I don't see any significant advance compared to yamahas keybed, korg has used before m3. I wouldn't go so far saying it is fantastic!
I've observed that it is not made of a very firm plastic. I have scratches from my fingernails after just one or two slides!!!!
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

promaster wrote:
I play keyboards from 30 years and the M3 keybed (61/73) is the worse "feel-response" synth-action ever tryed: is not possible to play with full velocity range (0-127) with any velocity curve.

Im not a karma user... i play with al my 10 fingers.


You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but you are the only person I am aware of that doesn't like the M3 synth action (this group includes people who have played keyboards longer than 30 years and play with all 10 fingers).

Sound on Sound (July 2007)
Quote:
The Trinities and the Z1 used excellent Yamaha keyboards, and the semi-weighted versions of these have perhaps the best 'synth' action of any workstations.
The KYBD61 feels very responsive and solid, and I spent many happy hours with it before placing it next to my Z1, whereupon I realised how different the two feel. But I'm not going to praise one at the expense of the other; the M3's keyboard is a good one.


Keyboard Magazine (July 2007)
Quote:
Korg designed and manufactured the new weighted synth-action keyboard that you’ll find on the 61- and 76-key versions of the M3. I’ll cut to the chase: This is the best synth action keyboard I’ve ever played.
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promaster



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinHines wrote:
This is the best synth action keyboard I’ve ever played.


ok, ok... but why with this "fantastic" synth-action i cant play an el.piano with full range dinamic? Why with curves 1,2,3 or 4 the max vel.value plyable is 115/118 and with curves 5,6,7 the min value is 30/40... where is the full range control? Why i miss fortissimo with some curves and pianissimo with others?

This is a bad keyboard to play sound with all expressive range.
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Lorenzo
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Joined: 07 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you play keyboards longer than 30 years and still don't know the different between keyboard action and velocity response?
Anyway... what is wrong with korg is not the action for sure, but maybe the velocity response...
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keego
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

promaster wrote:
MartinHines wrote:
Unfortunately, most people would disagree with you.

Nearly all user reviews (and all pro reviews) think the 61/73 synth action is fantastic.


Good thing fot most people...but not for me Wink

I play keyboards from 30 years and the M3 keybed (61/73) is the worse "feel-response" synth-action ever tryed: is not possible to play with full velocity range (0-127) with any velocity curve.

Im not a karma user... i play with al my 10 fingers.


TEN FINGERS!!!

Bloody hell while us mere mortals have to make do with eight. You must be able to play some arrpegios Wink He He
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Previous:
Korg:X5D,Wavestation, N364, Trinity,Triton Classic,Triton Studio, Korg M3 61 w/ EXB-Radias
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shrike
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After many problems with velocity response with the M3 keyboard, I have sold the M3-73 keybed keeping the module only.


Good move, especially regarding powering it with XS, but for wrong reason, as bellow:

Quote:

is the worse "feel-response" synth-action ever tryed: is not possible to play with full velocity range (0-127) with any velocity curve.


This is where I agree with Lorenzo, key action has nothing to do with velocity curve, M3 velocity is bad due programming, not keys itself.

But that keys are somewhat worse than old Yamaha keys Korg used to implement on previous keyboards, that is how I feel them too.
They should have keep the old keybed, IMO.

But let's make it a matter of personal opinion. I have old N364 that has awful keybed and actually met players that bought N364 exclusively because of the keybed! I can't understand how can that be, but still.
So, which keys each of us prefer is absolutely personal thing.
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shrike wrote:

They should have keep the old keybed, IMO.


This probably was not an option. The Triton/Triton Studio/Triton Extreme/OASYS 61&76 key models used a Yamaha "FS" synth action (same as the Motif 6/7 and Motif ES 6/7). Yamaha replaced the FS action with their new "FSX" action (more environmentally friendly), which is used in the Tyros 2 and Motif XS 6/7. Korg may have always planned to design and manufacture their own keybeds, but the Yamaha change may have influenced their decision (or not).

promaster wrote:
ok, ok... but why with this "fantastic" synth-action i cant play an el.piano with full range dinamic? Why with curves 1,2,3 or 4 the max vel.value plyable is 115/118 and with curves 5,6,7 the min value is 30/40... where is the full range control? Why i miss fortissimo with some curves and pianissimo with others?

It is just strange that you are only person who has made this complaint, and Korg has probably sold a few thousand of the M3-61s and M3-73s. I don't have an M3 I can test with, but if this was a design defect, I would have expected to see many people complain about it.

Did you ever test other units to see if your keyboard was defective?

When you submitted the problem to Korg Tech Support (i.e. not being able to generate all velocities) what did they say? Did they agree with you?
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promaster



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many other users on this and karma-lab forum have the same problem with velocity response.
I need snap for high velocity notes when playing el.pianos but with M3 keybed is not possible.

An example for all.... why with vel.curve = 4 the M3 cant reach the max velocity value? Try with an hammer on keyboards and the max value will be 118/120.... this is a bug guys!

If you like M3 keybed...good for you.
I have sold it and now play really better on yamaha & roland keybeds!
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promaster



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorenzo wrote:
you play keyboards longer than 30 years and still don't know the different between keyboard action and velocity response?
Anyway... what is wrong with korg is not the action for sure, but maybe the velocity response...


Ok, good action... but if u cant reach the max velocity value with a keyboard with the standard curves the unit has some problem.
Is not possible that to have the max velocity I need to use curve 6 missing all piano & pianissimo expression.
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Lorenzo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it seems that you still not understand the difference between hardware and software... Rolling Eyes
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Rainer



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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Location: germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One does not need to know the difference between software and hardware.
Either the m3 responds to its genuine keyboard in a proper way, or it does not. What else is important?
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shrike
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Location: Croatia, Dugo Selo

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But there is a difference.

No way keybed would cause those issues with velocity peak.

M3 has velocity curves programmed not good enough and that's all to it.
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