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Do we really have to wait....
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spinoria
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Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Do we really have to wait.... Reply with quote

Jerry.....

Do we really have to wait until NAMM 2008 to know how the EX-USB-PCM will work together with ROM and RAM memory?

I don't expect to see all the new librarys yet but I really, really would like to know how they will work?

Why is it so quiet from Korg? Did Korg make a bad solution and don't won't to admitt it in hope to sell a few more M3's before a better solution is provided in the next workstation?



I'm sorry to bring this up once more but I'm in a bit of hurry
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jerrythek
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Spinoria:

No, you don't have to wait, I thought we already explained it.

USB-PCM expansions will load into RAM memory. So they will have to load into memory when the M3 wakes up. Programs/Combis that reference them will require the data to be loaded to sound.

This is not unlike any sampler, or any virtual sampler/instrument that has flexible choices of sounds.

We are assuming that the user will have the EXB-M256, i.e. the sounds will require/assume more than 64 Mb of memory.

What exactly is your question that you don't understand? I'll try to help you if I can.

regards,

Jerry
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Trinity2112
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Joined: 20 Feb 2002
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Location: Delaware, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry - Did Korg choose to go this route rather than the PCM expansion board route because of the limited space in the module? Is this a case of form over function?

Quote:
when the M3 wakes up
AND WHEN MIGHT THAT BE? Wink
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ZOID



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So they will have to load into memory when the M3 wakes up.


So, does this mean that there will be an autoload funktion for the M3?
Can this be used for normal samples too?
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TSUNAMI
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm interesting ...

how are you going to stop piracy doing it this way ??? Surely if its loaded into Ram it can be saved to another device once loaded onto the M3 ...

OR ...

Will the library be FREE ( Doubt it !!! )anyway so therefore no reason to be concerned about piracy ...

...
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rfoshaug
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSUNAMI wrote:
how are you going to stop piracy doing it this way ??? Surely if its loaded into Ram it can be saved to another device once loaded onto the M3 ...


That's easy - while the waveforms are in RAM, they are specially "marked" as coming from a specific EXB-USB. That's why when you make a sound using such a waveform, you don't choose "RAM-M"/"RAM-S" (for mono or stereo) or "ROM-M"/"ROM-S" but "EXB01" or something like that. This also prevents the sample indexing problems that normal user samples have, because multisamples from EXB's don't use the normal numbering system.... or something like that.

So while they do load into normal RAM, they are not normal samples that the user can edit and save. Unless you manually resample it through the M3 which would be a lot of work.
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Jon Lord
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the Usb-Pcm expansions needs to be connected to the m3 every time it boots up if you want to use those sounds Brick wall
And the usb pcm sticks are rather small(?) and they can easily be lost during gigs.... or even stolen since they are so small parts...

/Jon Lord
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sani
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Joined: 22 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerrythek wrote:
Hi Spinoria:

No, you don't have to wait, I thought we already explained it.

USB-PCM expansions will load into RAM memory. So they will have to load into memory when the M3 wakes up. Programs/Combis that reference them will require the data to be loaded to sound.

This is not unlike any sampler, or any virtual sampler/instrument that has flexible choices of sounds.

We are assuming that the user will have the EXB-M256, i.e. the sounds will require/assume more than 64 Mb of memory.

What exactly is your question that you don't understand? I'll try to help you if I can.

regards,

Jerry



Dear Jerry,

with all my respect for Korg,

this is by far the most stu..d decision korg ever made in the last 20 years. It is definitely worth a nobel price for the most screwed up decision in a companies history. Nothing in the modern music market comes even close!

Korg offers the smallest sample-ram, smaller than even some outdated/out-of-production sampler/workstations, and now you really expect from us to waste our time before gigging with loading your so-called-expansions and sacrifice the small, overpriced sample-ram?????? What if I buy 3 expansions?
Load the first, second, third, than load my own samples???

Jesus, please, tell us this is a bad joke!

I hope nobody buys this...joke!
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spinoria
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your answer Jerry.

I think you have explained this before but I couldn't really belive this was the final solution for the expansions.

Really bad decision. But at least now I know I won't buy the M3. Anyone want to sell a Triton Extreme 76 ?
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dorremifasol
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Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the current prices for the EXB-M256 expansion in Europe I can't see why someone would buy it, to load an EXB-USB-PCM which has to be bought as well.

From my point of view it's a rip-off, absolutely.
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Sharp
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 17914
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rfoshaug wrote:
TSUNAMI wrote:
how are you going to stop piracy doing it this way ??? Surely if its loaded into Ram it can be saved to another device once loaded onto the M3 ...


That's easy - while the waveforms are in RAM, they are specially "marked" as coming from a specific EXB-USB. That's why when you make a sound using such a waveform, you don't choose "RAM-M"/"RAM-S" (for mono or stereo) or "ROM-M"/"ROM-S" but "EXB01" or something like that. This also prevents the sample indexing problems that normal user samples have, because multisamples from EXB's don't use the normal numbering system.... or something like that.

So while they do load into normal RAM, they are not normal samples that the user can edit and save. Unless you manually resample it through the M3 which would be a lot of work.


That still doesn't stop someone from simply making a copy of the USB memory stick with their PC.

I'd imagine they have something at the OS level that either pairs the stick to your M3, or does the M3 have a Public ID system like the OASYS ?.

Should be interesting.

Regards.
Sharp.
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sani wrote:

and now you really expect from us to waste our time before gigging with loading your so-called-expansions


Sani,

Assuming the USB key is inserted at time of M3 power on, the samples would autoload.

I don't see how this would be a "big time waste".

Step 1: insert EXB-USB-PCM key into M3
Step 2: Power on M3
Step 3: Play as normal (the EXB-USB-PCM samples will be sitting in RAM, ready for you to use).

Conceptually this isn't significantly different than the OASYS. With the OASYS, ALL samples are loaded into RAM at power up.


Sharp wrote:
I'd imagine they have something at the OS level that either pairs the stick to your M3, or does the M3 have a Public ID system like the OASYS ?.

I would guess the M3 will have some type of authorization process, with either the M3 being the "dongle" or the USB key.
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sani
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Joined: 22 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinHines wrote:

Sani,

Assuming the USB key is inserted at time of M3 power on, the samples would autoload.

I don't see how this would be a "big time waste".

Step 1: insert EXB-USB-PCM key into M3
Step 2: Power on M3
Step 3: Play as normal (the EXB-USB-PCM samples will be sitting in RAM, ready for you to use).


I guess that they plan to release more than one "expansion". Now, imagine you have 2-3 of them. You need to put the first in, start the loading process, put it out, put the second in and so on, and finally, you probably want also to load your own samples into the m3.

Once again: the smallest ram, the most expensive ram, and now, it will be occupied by a so called expansion.
Korg is giving as additional samples in the form of a usb stick instead of a cd-rom. You cannot call this an expansion.

An expansion is what you have with a Roland fantom or Triton. An immediate access to additional sounds after powering the keyboard on.

Let's see a Fantom: Fully expanded with 4 expansion boards + the internal 128 Mb Sample rom is 256 + 128.
And than, there is 512 Mb Ram for your user samples. Yes, loading own samples is slow, but even without the sample ram you have a greatly expanded machine if you want it that way. And those paper facts are telling me that a fantom beats the hell out of a m3.

Finally, what are we talkin about: we had proper expansion boards on the triton models: immediate access to new additional sounds. That's how expansion boards are usually promoted.

Now korg is making a giant step back, giving as this joke of an expansion.
I hope, nobody will buy this. There are already all kinds of sample cd's on the market.
Just buy them, load the samples into your m3 together with your own and save everything on one single stick. Isn't that more practical?

Korg, do it right, or don't do it at all.
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spinoria
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Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Should be loaded in the internal memory.... Reply with quote

The factory PCM-Memory for the M3 is stored in some kind of harddrive, flashdrive or SD card.

Of course the new expansions should be loaded in the same memory so that they could be accessed immediately without wasting RAM memory.

Also you wouldn't have the upper limit of 320 mb of PCM-waveform memory.
The harddrive/flashdrive/SD card could have had 1 or 2 gb with unfilled space for PCM-expansions. That would have been a cheap and flexible solution.

Maybe next time Korg.
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shrike
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The harddrive/flashdrive/SD card could have had 1 or 2 gb with unfilled space for PCM-expansions. That would have been a cheap and flexible solution.


I highly doubt Korg will make such a solution if they can gain profit with expansion you are complaining about, and I'm joining you in complaining.

As noted in previous posts, M3 is predated product and that's it. They didn't make it to be better than Extreme in all fields and that's a shame.
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