Korg Forums

[splurt]

hmmm

[mish mash]

I spoke to korg uk yesterday and the guy in charge of technical support told me he was unaware of all the issues on the post....even the vu meter problem....... so i sent him the link ......probably ll do nothing but ll see!
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it's not how big you grow, it's how far you go!

Emx 1
Esx 1
Kp3
Zero 8
PCR 500
Mac book pro
cdj 1000

[mikemolloyuk]

Dont recall saying anything about not knowing anything about the issues on the post??

When did you call me?


Mike
UK Tech Support

[mish mash]

dunno I phoned about 2 to 3 month ago ( I wrote yesterday as a figure of speech to bring the post up to date, to me it felt like yesterday and anyway I was thinking if the technical support don't know about this thread who ll....that is why I wrote the do nothing bit )....funny enough if I saw/realize you were here I would have probably just pm you the link...anyway ....don't get me wrong who ever I spoke with was nice and helpful and I read the thread before I bought a zero 8 and after so I knew about the issues. I just picked up the phone 1 day and decided to ask some 1 there about the vu meter cos it is a bit annoying....that's the response i got.
YESTERDAY the real 1....reading about on the forum ...I found the thread...So I remembered the conversation, posted a message here before, to see if any 1 will say or recommend something and there we are. No disrespect I'm not complaining I just.... you know.....(among other things) wanna see those little red needle dance..

thanx
_________________
it's not how big you grow, it's how far you go!

Emx 1
Esx 1
Kp3
Zero 8
PCR 500
Mac book pro
cdj 1000

[valhill]

Could you please tell us what is coming in 1.7 update. When it's coming and when we will have drivers for 64 bit Windows?
And if you don't know anything about it, then at least, if Korg is aware of all problems (including drivers 64 bit) and working on it.
Because I spoke to Korg representative in USA at the end of last year and he said he didn't even heard any talk about 64 bit drivers. But as I found your website (UK) is more informative and up to date so may be you guys know something? Any hope would help!

thank you!

[splurt]

bottom line is, whatever kors says, this mixer has issues

i am often set up to where i cannot control the volume of speakers, many self powered speakers do not have volume control, also many clubs do not let you control volume

then you are STUCK with hiss

i also have annoying click in headphones, that no one wanted to fix.. still there, always there..

an otherwise great mixer, but its not without problems.. and no matter what korg says, the hiss is a constant problem for me on the road... thats the bottom line..

no matter what anyone says..

there is not always a level of control on amps and monitors..

[jayray]

i couldn't agree more......
and anyone from korg who gigs(or has at some point) knows this.
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enjoy yourself

[djcl.ear]

I sense the problem lies in that Korg knows that even if Zeros didn't turned as good as planned, they actually comply with the released specifications...
Yes signal to noise figure can get very close to the published 95 dBs as stated in the press and product releases. We know that for achieving that it has to be run hot and doing this eats up most headroom available leaving important mixer controls useless...
However, because there is a way to function as promised, Korg is not forced to acknowledge any problem and less to call back product, a response that would prove to be very costly.
They have been careful in this matter prbbly because customer dissatisfaction and any reckoning from them could evolve into lawsuits.

However, I've seen other brands to react to these borderline cases with a revamped release of the same product, but this time fixed and improved; typically calling them MARK II or something like this.

The question is would actual Zero owners prefer to witness the launch of revamped Zeros thus leaving version 1 units to rest in history??

As a prospective buyer I'd love to have a Zero8 that fully lives to the expectations it creates on paper. I would guess that actual owners would choose -if given the choice- to send back their units for a buyer paid optional harware-fix and improvement.
Both units (newly revamped and fixed old ones) then could probably be called MARK II if both of them get the same new level of functionality.

This optional-hardware fix+upgrade (for existing Zeros) plus version II production run is probably the customer preferred course of action and it also constitutes the less cost + best revenues way for KORG to go, since it would terminate most users complaints and would attract plenty of new customers actually scared by the ongoing user feedback...

I hope Korg corporate structure acts wisely and fast enough in this everyday more obvious case...

PD: This update is quite feasible. There is a big talk at specialized forums about recently launched OP AMPS with way way up higher specs (above s/n 115 dB) similarly priced to old ones. This replacement would be fast, easy and is just an example of cheap alternatives to get to MARK II.

[costi_ebay]

So after all, the spdif solution give you a clear sound without the his or other problems? Or the test is not concludent?

Thanks in advance for your true opinion cause I would like to buy one... and I already have a good convertor

[djcl.ear]

[costi_ebay]

Thank you very much for your explanation djcl.ear.

I asked you about the digital out cause I have a really good converter that I would like to use with the zero8 when I'm playing live so this will not be a problem if the digital out has no hiss or other problems.

Second, I want to use the zero8 just as a standalone mixer so I will not use it as a sound card with any computer, I want just to run the analog outputs of a Akai MPC 2500 and Electribe SX1 through the analog inputs of the zero8.

I would like to use the zero8 cause has 8 stereo inputs, with EQs on every channel, with insert, send and master effects included so no need for external one. Is the only mixer on the market that has this features inlcuded...

So my question is, if I use it just as a mixer and use it just with the digital out run it through a good converter should I worry about buying it? You said something about the analog inputs? Also the analog inputs have sound problems? In this case for sure I will not buy it!

Thanks

[djcl.ear]

In your case, if you want to be sure and don't have the chance to try it out at a seller's shop, I'd search and PM someone in this forum with a similar zero8 configuration.

At any case, the analogue inputs of any digital mixer -like Zero ones- need ADC converters, and these are much easier to implement (and thus sound good) than DACs, which are the converters used on the output stages.
Having this in mind one could guess that your planned use of Zero8 has a better chance to sound good than the typical analogue in + analogue outs zero8 use...

However, considering the general set up you aim to... I'd say it is the typical one that has been streeeetched to its sound quality limits, and sooner than later is going to be left aside.
Let me explain, you pbbly use both Akai MPC 2500 and Korg Electribe SX1 as paired sequencers from where you generate & effect drum and song patterns that you plan to send with audio analogue lines to Zero8 to ultimately effect, EQ and mix with whatever else (Mics, additional instruments,etc.) you want to later add to then level forming the final mix before it goes out to the sound system (via SPDIF to your external DAC)....

I see that the SX1 groovebox even accepts audio inserts to process as the internally generated sounds and also allows you to"improve" its sound character via a tube stage.
It all looks Ok, but in terms of sound quality, if you look carefully both SX1 and the MPC do all with DIGITAL processing inside. They are not analogue machines. In both cases before the audio leaves the boxes, it gets degraded by a typical bad quality DAC.

But you see... these DACs are really unnecesary, if only Korg and AKAI had included digital in & outs in these machines, then you'd be able to plug your whole system into Zero, via pristine quality digitally unconverted signals and then at Zero8 level you could had used its send outs to apply some extra cheese, sorry warmth to the sound via some external tube stage (ART?). But hasn't happened yet...

Besides this is not a Korg or AKAI only problem, the integration of the best qualities of Digital in the audio world has not been easy or fast... but it's been accelerating lately and the recent "revealing sound systems" being deployed everywhere are projecting the sound differences into the dancefloors already.

That said and being practical -for the next couple of years- I agree with you, that if you find out that Zero8 analogue inputs dont' add much noise it could be a very good alternative for your set up.
You still may use above's rant for future updating ideas...

//////////////wait¡¡¡ Just saw that Akai MPC has an USB out.... that possibly allows you to connect to Zero8 firewire input for multiple digital outs¡¡¡¿ Worth to check.

[costi_ebay]

Thanks again for your answer

Yes, you are right, when a lot of ADC and DAC are involved the sound is loosing the quality. But overall I will be please to have a simple setup that will give me a lot of flexibility (2 groove samplers and a mixer with all the need it functions sync perfectly). I am sure the quality will not be lost that much to influence my live performance in a bad way. Anyway I am planing to buy from ebay a TC Finalizer 96 rack, a mastering processor that will give me the good sound tools for my live, also this processor has digital in so I will use it as a digital to analog converter for the zero8.

Regarding the usb of the Akai Mpc that is used just for the transfer of the samples in the Mpc memory and is not used for transfer of any audio or midi data.

Regarding your suggestion, before you reply me here, I already PM a few members from here that used the digital out but I get no answer till now. I called korg representatives from my town and they said I can test a zero8 at their shop so I think this will be decisive for my selection.

[djcl.ear]

[grrrant]

All of this technical, esoteric jargon and terminology.... sorry guys. Just stop it.

I - THE CONSUMER - know, that I have a $100 EMU 0404, and also, a $1600 Zero8 - and the EMU kicks the Zero8's butt right out of the stadium when it comes to sound quality. That is NOT ok, but that will NEVER change.

Also - Korg, Please Note: The Zero8's feature list is NOT a justification for accepting it's hiss problem.

AND.... And, another Korg rep that tries to "educate" me on gain structure is gonna make me wanna come over there and have a face to face discussion with someone at Korg.

Bottom Line? KORG screwed up so bad, that they will FAIL as a company - IE: GO OUT OF BUSINESS - if they actually honor their customers requests to fix this problem...

RECTIFYING THIS ISSUE IS NOT FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE FROM A CORPORATE PERSPECTIVE

We're screwed... I mean, come on - no one else has noticed how cheap you can get a Zero8 for these days... I bought mine for about $1600... now, you can buy a brand new one up for less than $900. Don't give me any BS about product/market saturation blah blah blah...

Today - a KORG Zero8 would still be worth every penny of even $2000 - if it actually sounded good.

Good job, Korg.

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