 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: So is the KP3 worth getting? |
 |
|
With all the bugs i've read about i've been a little put off.I'll have to check whats up with the sampling issues.But otherwise still worth getting?I was thinking about getting a mini kp and/or a kaossilator but the kp3 looks like a much better proposition...
_________________
 Soundz musik |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BostonGreen
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
The sampling capabillities of the KP3 are s**t.
The effects are cool.
If I could wack the clocks back i'd have got a kaossilator and a MPC500. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BostonGreen wrote: | The sampling capabillities of the KP3 are s**t.
The effects are cool.
If I could wack the clocks back i'd have got a kaossilator and a MPC500. |
Really?The reviews are really good.It's only here that i've read anything negative about the sampling...shame about that,it is a big draw the idea of resampling on the fly and mashing up loops live.And the usb support 
I like the demos i've heard of the kaossilator.I was thinking maybe get the kp3 and maybe add a kaossilator but it's £275 for the kp3.My setup would be running audio tracks of a laptop.Plan was to set up an fx chain bus and use a midi controller.So i was thinking getting a kaossilator to create loops to use live and using the mini in my live setup.The kp3 looks appealing for the features and live performance aspect but is it worth the outlay?
_________________
Soundz musik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BostonGreen
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
yeah the re-sampling is great, except once you've re-sampled you don't have enough control of the trimming of the loop to get multiple loops syncing correctly.
If they do an update, sort out the problems and impliment some of the cool bits from the kaossilator then it would be excellent and well worth the money.
Don't get me wrong, Its a nice bit of kit, but if its sampling you need, go MPC . .
Or a very nice Fusion 8HD !!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BostonGreen wrote: | yeah the re-sampling is great, except once you've re-sampled you don't have enough control of the trimming of the loop to get multiple loops syncing correctly.
If they do an update, sort out the problems and impliment some of the cool bits from the kaossilator then it would be excellent and well worth the money.
Don't get me wrong, Its a nice bit of kit, but if its sampling you need, go MPC . .
Or a very nice Fusion 8HD !!! |
I'm not expecting a full blown sampler.I wasn't really aware of it's sampling capabilities until yesterday but it sounds impressive and the vids are good.I could definitely use the resampling to capture stuff live but it's the fx and midi control that i'd be using the most.
I was concerned because there seem to be quite a lot of issues with it.For that kind of outlay i want something that works seamlessly out of the box...
It's one of those things i'm going to have to try for myself.From the demos i've seen it's hard to call so i'm just gonna have to try it. 
The Fusion 8HD is a bit excessive for my needs!
_________________
Soundz musik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dayuri
Full Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The sampling capabilities are shitt, but so long as you're not purely relying on the KP3's sampling in order to make noise there are lots of ways around the KP3's shortcomings in this area.
When it comes to FX nothing can compare! Well nothing I can think of anyway.
Yeah, there are a few bugs but they're all fairly arbitrary in the light of the machines capabilities, and most of it will probably be fixed in the next update(s).
I bought mine mostly for sampling, which it isn't good at, but I'm happy with mine anyway. Its pretty good value I think. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well I'm glad I saw this.
The KP3 rocks. Period.
All the "bugs" worthy of real attention were addressed in 2.0 in my professional opinion. Midi sync is now very solid. Auto BPM? Eh, it's always a challenge to implement a sync method based on audio waveforms. Got a "Acid House" groove goin? Perfect. "Experimental breaks"? Uh, no.
Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead uses them. Considering these are unbalanced units (RCA i/o) designed for the DJ community, these two artists using them is a very strong vote of confidence.
Personally I can tell you it has been one of most inspiring and FUN devices I've owned in ages.
I think the "loop" sampling is KICK ASS. If you define sampling as being able to fire off one-hits (like an MPC) then it's like comparing apples to oranges anyway. All this crap about resampling clicks and glitches is so minor, especially considering the kind of material it is designed to play with. No on one the dance floor is EVER going to notice that or CARE.
The real question is how are you going to use it?
So many guitarists come here asking about it and I always have to laugh. Are you going to just do hammer-ons while you manipulate the KP3 with your other hand? I just don't get it. People will immediately point out Johnny Greenwood of Radiohead, but that dude gets on his knees and plays the pad (KP2 in this case) with both hands and typically is manipulating something he just sampled - often Thom's voice.
Using it in a rock band context can be really challenging - but possible. That is why that 'align' function is there, combined with diligent use of the Tap Tempo button. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BostonGreen wrote: | | yeah the re-sampling is great, except once you've re-sampled you don't have enough control of the trimming of the loop to get multiple loops syncing correctly. |
Are you using os 2.0? What trigger method are you using when you sample?
Using the Type3 [3.r.-] trigger method should solve this for you. Trimming isn't the issue - it's the start point, which you can control with this trigger method (instead of align.) Also makes for more inspired performance using re-triggering.
Type 1 [1.-.-] should work well too if you are adept at starting your loops *accurately* (it takes practice.) If things drift or get out of sync (because of your own inaccuracy) then the 'align' function makes it all right again. Just remember that align press needs to be accurate too.
Except for Ableton Live, all traditional loop samplers have always required "musical accuracy".
Sorry, not a bug - operator error. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dayuri wrote: | The sampling capabilities are shitt, but so long as you're not purely relying on the KP3's sampling in order to make noise there are lots of ways around the KP3's shortcomings in this area.
When it comes to FX nothing can compare! Well nothing I can think of anyway.
Yeah, there are a few bugs but they're all fairly arbitrary in the light of the machines capabilities, and most of it will probably be fixed in the next update(s).
I bought mine mostly for sampling, which it isn't good at, but I'm happy with mine anyway. Its pretty good value I think. |
I was just thinking about it's use as a loop sampler.For what it is it seems fairly good with the 2.0 update.A quick and dirty way to capture loops on the fly from whatever output sounds pretty good,instead of having to fire up my daw if i want to record something quickly.And then resampling through the fx would be cool..
What about the onboard synth and drums?Are the sounds usable?Would you plug a keyboard in? 
_________________
Soundz musik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrJimi
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
could any of you guys tell me how you got the driver working? I have version 2.0 but still get 'KP3not found' error message, how annoying 
Jimi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BostonGreen
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| decrepitude wrote: | | BostonGreen wrote: | | yeah the re-sampling is great, except once you've re-sampled you don't have enough control of the trimming of the loop to get multiple loops syncing correctly. |
Are you using os 2.0? What trigger method are you using when you sample? |
yes
| Quote: | Using the Type3 [3.r.-] trigger method should solve this for you. Trimming isn't the issue - it's the start point, which you can control with this trigger method (instead of align.) Also makes for more inspired performance using re-triggering.
Type 1 [1.-.-] should work well too if you are adept at starting your loops *accurately* (it takes practice.) If things drift or get out of sync (because of your own inaccuracy) then the 'align' function makes it all right again. Just remember that align press needs to be accurate too. |
fine if your playing one shots.
Example.
I have a drum loop playing at exactly 120bpm on another peice of equipment.
I record 2 bars into the kp3, which is also set at 120bpm. The kp3 will record exactly 768 ticks (1 beat = 96 ticks).
That sample, untouched will loop seemlessly, but if the first beat isnt lined up exactly, it will sound 'out' when played alongside a loop or sample that is spot on, it'll sound like a dj who can't quite get his beats lined up.
So you then use the kp3 to trim the start of the sample to get it spot on. This does get the first beat to sound spot on but the way the kp3 handles the END of the sample is what causes the problem, It doesnt allow you to alter the end point. So by altering the start, say moving it forward 1/32 beat (12 ticks), you end up with a sample that is only 756 ticks long, the kp3 doesnt allow you to stretch the sample back to 768 ticks or allow you to add silence to the end (although that still wouldnt help with a drum loop).
As for using the updated triggering modes, if you understand the above, then you'll realise the problem with that mode.
Say with your original 2 bar drum loop (768 ticks), with a kick on each beat, you'll have a kick on tick 0, another kick on tick 96, another on tick 192 and so on.
By just being able to adjust the start point, and as with the above example we move it forward 1/32 beat (12 ticks) it means the second kick sound will come in 12 ticks earlier, the 3rd kick will come in 24 ticks earlier .... however you trigger it. This is why people complain of samples drifting out.
| Quote: | | Sorry, not a bug - operator error. |
LMAO, no, just someone that understands the principles involved. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| musikmachine wrote: | | What about the onboard synth and drums?Are the sounds usable? |
They're ok. All by themselves, eh. But once you start to resample - OH YES.
Try this when you get it:
-Using one of the drum programs, and the 'hold button, resample a drum groove.
-Now you can apply effects and resample. What's really cool is press down on the XY pad just on certain hits. So I'll do this with a talk filter delay and some pitch mod and grain fx programs and continue to resample the loop.
-For added oomph, I'll use subtle amounts of the fuzzbox distortion and then finally one of the compressor programs. Now you've got a wild drum groove with impact and a lot more interesting sound.
Same goes for the synth programs, you can really mung some interesting textues with resampling.
| musikmachine wrote: | | Would you plug a keyboard in? |
Absolutely!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BostonGreen wrote: | | [RE: Trigger type 3] fine if your playing one shots. |
Nope. Works on loops too.
I just don't experience the drifting that you've described. I'm using midi clock sync, but it sounds like you are too.
| BostonGreen wrote: | I record 2 bars into the kp3, which is also set at 120bpm. The kp3 will record exactly 768 ticks (1 beat = 96 ticks).
That sample, untouched will loop seemlessly, but if the first beat isnt lined up exactly, it will sound 'out' when played alongside a loop or sample that is spot on, it'll sound like a dj who can't quite get his beats lined up.
So you then use the kp3 to trim the start of the sample to get it spot on. This does get the first beat to sound spot on but the way the kp3 handles the END of the sample is what causes the problem, It doesnt allow you to alter the end point. So by altering the start, say moving it forward 1/32 beat (12 ticks), you end up with a sample that is only 756 ticks long, the kp3 doesnt allow you to stretch the sample back to 768 ticks or allow you to add silence to the end (although that still wouldnt help with a drum loop). |
I still think you're wasting time with the trim to solve these issues. If you use trigger method 3 and record samples in accurately, then the retrigger aspects of type 3 will serve to correct timing faster and easier. And yes, it takes practice to get the timing right, ESPECIALLY with drum loops having a kick drum on the downbeat. Show me a hardware (not software) looping sampler that doesn't have these issues! It does not exist.
| BostonGreen wrote: | | LMAO, no, just someone that understands the principles involved. |
Sorry, but I would beg to differ on that one. Maybe it's a monitoring issue if you're unable to hit the sample button in a predictable fashion for the downbeat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BostonGreen
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| decrepitude wrote: | Show me a hardware (not software) looping sampler that doesn't have these issues! It does not exist.
|
You are kidding aren't you ?
I'm sitting in front of my mpc2500 laughing my nuts off at you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BostonGreen wrote: | | decrepitude wrote: | Show me a hardware (not software) looping sampler that doesn't have these issues! It does not exist.
|
You are kidding aren't you ?
I'm sitting in front of my mpc2500 laughing my nuts off at you. |
Uh, "LOOPING" sampler you frikkin genius.
An MPC2500 compared to a KP3?!! Take your MPC2500 out to gigs and STFU then. An MPC2500 is a full blown DAW for cripes sake.
No, .... "looping" samplers are like:
Electrix Repeater, Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro Plus, Boomerang Phrase Sampler, Line6 DL4 Modeling Delay, Boss RC-20XL Loop Station, etc.
All of which rely on decent musicianship to be used correctly.
Ugh, I'm outta here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
