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Quantium
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: M3 or M50? |
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| Help me out, I can't really decide. The M3's just dropped in price by $300 a piece, and the M50's are lower in general price. I like Karma, and would rather not have to turn my computer on every time I want to use Karma should I get the M50. |
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Sina172
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Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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klarnet basowy
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: M3 or M50? |
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| Sina172 wrote: | And the M3's gonna sound a LOT better, simply because it has better DAC's at its core.
Sina |
This is still matter of debate. I'm not so sure it is really so. 
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Klarnet, its not debatable at all, its a fact as on any other Machine.
PA800 and PA2X are exactly the same synths, not as different as
M3 and M50 but they sound different as 2 worlds.
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klarnet basowy
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| BasariStudios wrote: | Klarnet, its not debatable at all, its a fact as on any other Machine.
PA800 and PA2X are exactly the same synths, not as different as
M3 and M50 but they sound different as 2 worlds. |
I've read other posts on forums that says the contrary (about DACs).
By the way, until an official note of Korg or some photo of the DACs we can't say nothing.
cheers
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Kurzweil PC361
... and no Korg keybs now, we'll se in the future...
http://www.myspace.com/neogeo |
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shrike
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 670
Location: Croatia, Dugo Selo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | until an official note of Korg or some photo of the DACs we can't say nothing. |
Hm, yes we can.
We can say that Korg never stated something like "PA2XPRO has better DAC than PA800", but musicians proved that statement. I tend to believe Nedim when he says there is a difference between the two, just like it is on PA series, I think he had the chance to compare them side by side.
If M50 would sound exactly like M3, with absolutely no difference when identical preset multisamples are used, there wouldn't be any benefit in buying M3 to musicians who don't need sampler and Karma. Also, M3 is a flagship. It just have to sound better than M50 and probably have better DAC to justify it's price tag. M50 is obviously designed to be abused on gigs, while M3 is more of a studio tool. On gigs, hardly anyone of us has top-notch equipment on which top-notch keyboard DAC can express it's full potential. Those who have such equipment will hear the difference. Also, expensive sound card in studio environment will sure benefit more from M3's DAC than M50.
M3 cost like two M50. Just because M50 doesn't have sampler, Karma and aftertouch? Hardly...
I haven't tried the two side by side, to be honest, but musicians I communicate with did. There is a difference.
Of course, Korg will never offer evidence for such statements.
Can you imagine M50 promotion like this:
"New M50 offers selected variety of M3's multisamples, but lower quality DAC..."
Never gonna happen.
See Korg's promotion for each instrument they have. If you would read about TR and not about any other Korg workstation, you could easily get an impression TR is everything a musician can possibly dream of. While in real world TR is a piece of garbage.
M50 offers a huge amount of goodies for it's price tag, but can't beat or be compared to flagships. If it could be, flagships would loose their flag. |
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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It is pretty logical they dont have the same outs, there is few reasons the
machine is cheaper. Dont believe anything KORG says.
They say PA50 sounds amazing even though it sounds like $%^& but hey,
for that money sounds good...but never amazing.
Forget what books and specs say...i never believed in them anyways, the
best judgement is hands on, no use of 500MB ROM if the thing sounds like $%^&.
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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klarnet basowy
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| shrike wrote: | While in real world TR is a piece of garbage.
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This is simply stupid.
Anyway, stay with your ideas. (although the ideas about DACs can be acceptable) (but to be verified, not only DAC can give difference in sound, also the after conversion pre-amplification, if present).
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Kurzweil PC361
... and no Korg keybs now, we'll se in the future...
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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The M50 is for people who can't afford an M3. its that simple.
If you can afford both, i can see no real reason why to go after the m50. some would say looks i suppose but i'd say thats second to your sound. the M3 is going to offer you more oppertunities.
sampler, aftertouch, radias expansion, KARMA (i'd say thats a big one), build quality. number of realtime controls...
okay i admit i'm not sure about the build quality, m3 seems a little flimsy whilst the m50 felt more solid to me. but it is an instrument, you should treat it with respect and care. |
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candlewick
Full Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't try the M3 against the M50 with a decent set of headphones, but using the monitors they had at GC, there was not a noticeable difference in audio quality between the two boards using similar patches. The most dramatic thing for me is the difference on the combi's between the M50 and my Triton LE. The addded insert effects make a huge difference in the depth of the layers. In a live setting much of the "color" of a synthesizers sound gets altered by the PA gear to the point that arguments about the quality of one chip verses another is mute .
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shrike
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 670
Location: Croatia, Dugo Selo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Klarnet, why is my statement stupid?
Is there any TR feature you know of and I don't, something I missed?
Besides small ROM, terrible keybed, outdated screen, ridiculous amount of time needed for samples to be loaded into RAM when sampler is added with expansion, awful DAC (I tested and compared to Extreme and Studio, so you can't preach me about that), only one IFX in any mode, mode navigation made worse than even on my old N364...
Is there something good about that board?
What exactly?
Come on...
If my memory serves me well, you had TR and sold it. Or intended to buy one, but didn't because you realized it wasn't good? What was it?
If something is bad, there is no purpose in defending it just because of low cost.
| Quote: | | not only DAC can give difference in sound, also the after conversion pre-amplification, if present |
Agreed. Connect M3 and M50, or Extreme and TR, or PA2XPRO and PA800 to same gear, give them equal environment to produce sound on.
If you don't hear any difference, you are blessed with bad hearing and don't worry yourself about bad sound, which is real blessing, believe me.
I spent hard-earned money on my gear because couldn't stand bad sound.
And I see you have M50 in your signature, which explains why you defend similar machines. |
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klarnet basowy
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| shrike wrote: | | Klarnet, why is my statement stupid? |
TR is a budget workstation!!! And for its price has a lot of good sound to deliver. If you can't understand that a "budget" synth can't be like a flagship synth but it still have reason to exist, it's not my problem.
It's like to say, for example, that a Renault Clio is garbage because you compare it only with a Ferrari.. it's stupid.
Come on you, phenomenon!
| Quote: | | If my memory serves me well, you had TR and sold it. Or intended to buy one, but didn't because you realized it wasn't good? What was it? |
I had TR, I sold it to upgrade (not because it was bad).
But.. why in hell you have to argue about MY BUY/SELL?!?
Don't you have better things to do in your life?
| Quote: |
If something is bad, there is no purpose in defending it just because of low cost. |
TR is not "bad". It gives what it can whithin its price. And it's a lot. Compare it with other keyboards in this price range.
| Quote: |
And I see you have M50 in your signature, which explains why you defend similar machines. |
Only who has flagship workstation can do statements? What is all this "I have flagship workstations and you no, so you're inferior to me". Fly down..
Hare you able in some way to say something that's not provocations?
Don't try to speak with me anymore in this way!
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Kurzweil PC361
... and no Korg keybs now, we'll se in the future...
http://www.myspace.com/neogeo |
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, you gotta calm down, machines are compared in a different way then
you talk in here. You dont compare outputs and converters on headphones
nor you can compare them on live PA nor on stupid computer speakers.
Candle, try both machine on one of my ADAMS pair or TANNOY pair of
speakers then you'll see the difference, it will make you sick.
People are used to get 2 machines, connect them to some stupid PA system
in a hall somewhere or to the computer speakers and then compare.
It just dont work that way.
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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candlewick
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Real world (studio) and real world (live) applications are two different worlds as well. A trained studio ear verses the masses who are used to MP3 file music over an I-pod. I am only suggesting that if a prospective buyer were looking for their next keyboard purchase, for say playing with a club band or at church. The extra $800 for the M3 is a tough sell based on sound quality alone. It becomes a process of splitting hairs. I have owned a Korg flagship before and agree that for features and feel they are the whole enchilada. But have found for my humble musical pursuits, that the quality of the TR and LE series soundsets , and now the M50 give up little ground to their big brothers. Either instrument has its place in the market. I for one am thankful that quality sounding instruments are available at both pricepoints. Everyone here has probably cringed when hearing the casual listener exclaim............"hey, they've got Casios at WalMart that can do that !!!! "
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"I Need More Cowbell!!"
-Todd
TritonLE76,X3R, M50-61, TD6V V-drum module w/ Pintech Mesh Triggers |
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BasariStudios
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Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Candle i understand you and you are right to a point but when someone
ask whats better or what sounds better i still have to answe.
I cant think of circumstances and where he gonna use it, all i know is that
there is a way big difference in the outputs of M50 and M3 and i am required
to say that then they make their decision on other things too.
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http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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