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Open source?
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Open source? Reply with quote

Is there any way that Korg would put the software out there for the open source kids to fool around with? Have they ever done that?
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3035
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

They spent money developing the software so they aren't going to turn around and provide the source code to the general public.
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They developed the software, which is a free download. They don't charge for it, as it is a feature included with the MicroSampler. Open-sourcing the software means that possibly hundreds of people would be working on it for free, which would actually save them money.

Thanks, though, for your well thought out and constructive criticism.
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is keeping you from making your own open source software and giving it away for free.
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order to do so, I would:

A) have the software development kit to build something for the MicroSampler

B) actually be a programmer


Why all the cranks? Do you have something against making the world a better place?
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thuggy_bear wrote:
In order to do so, I would:

A) have the software development kit to build something for the MicroSampler

B) actually be a programmer

Why all the cranks? Do you have something against making the world a better place?


I have nothing against open source software. That's why I suggested you write it if you want it. What's with all the non-programmers who expect programmers to give them programs for free?

I think the world would be a better place if you donate everything you own to charity and volunteer full-time without pay. See how easy it is to save the world using someone else's stuff and effort.
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thuggy_bear wrote:
They developed the software, which is a free download. They don't charge for it, as it is a feature included with the MicroSampler..

Of course they "charge" for it; it is built into the price, just as tech support is.

thuggy_bear wrote:

Open-sourcing the software means that possibly hundreds of people would be working on it for free, which would actually save them money.

As a software developer I know what "open source" is.
Companies don't want to give away technology they have created for free.

thuggy_bear wrote:

Thanks, though, for your well thought out and constructive criticism.

People who yap that software should be OpenSource usually have never spent thousands of dollars developing software, only to turn around and give it away for free.


thuggy_bear wrote:
Open-sourcing the software means that possibly hundreds of people would be working on it for free, which would actually save them money.

How would it "save them money"? If the software was released as OpenSource, Korg would still need to try to maintain some influence over it (which means Korg resources, which costs money). Who would decide what features it would have? What if the few people who want to mess around with the source code are lousy programmers and wreck the program?

As long as Korg wants to provide the software as part of the product, they MUST maintain control over it, so they can guarantee it will work as expected.


Here is a real suggestion:
-- hire a few programmers and designers to create a set of requirements for your own MicroSampler editor
-- you can probably get something developed using the SysEx specs (Korg usually publishes these)
-- if you need more information, contact Korg, letting them know you have actually hired a team of developers to create a 3rd party editor for the MicroSampler. If they see you have actually invested real money and you are serious (not just some smoe complaining on a forum), they will probably provide some additional information to you
-- after you spend your money to create a v1 of your software, publish it as OpenSource
-- see how long it takes to get to version 2.0
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, the joys of hairsplitting...


1) you got me- they "charge" for it. Irrelevant to my point.

2) why would they not just publish an API or SDK? It does not require further investment. It would also, possibly, open up a whole new market of people who like to hack these things. Maybe other people like their jobs more than you do.

3) yap? I'm not sure why your are so offended at the idea there might be a community of people out there who like the DIY. Since Korg has already gotten my money, as I own the microsampler, why not let me an my friends do some hacks?

4) it would save them money because they would not have to pay additional programmers to program. The feature set you only be limited by the hardware and the creativity of the software developers. Look at all of the awesome things that people are doing on the CHDK website (Canon Hack Development Kit). They are doing it because they like to do it. It doesn't hurt anything- you can, if the code is bad, reflash the ROM, and your camera goes back to spec.

5) I have two friends of mine who have expressed an interest in looking into programming something better in the last 2 hours. Surely they are not the only people out there who would enjoy doing this. I mean- look at all of the people who jailbreak their iPhones, just for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why you are offended enough to chance just about every post I have down and then scold me for it, but I would suggest you get out a little more. Everything I have suggested does nothing at all for Korg's bottom line, and would, in fact, possibly open a whole new market of people who are right now programming Arduino boards to make control interfaces for their synths.

DIY is fun, and nobody gets hurt.
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Conkrete



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@thuggy_bear: Look into the OP-1 from Teenage Engineering. It may be more along the lines of what you're expecting from KORG. You have to keep in mind that KORG is still a giant corporation and as such is not going to be quick to make their funded research free to the public. You said yourself you aren't a programmer, so why argue with programmers about programming? It's pointless. Hacking doesn't necessarily require an SDK, ask your two programmer friends you mentioned. This is just a suggestion, hopefully you won't regard this as "scolding" too. DIY can be fun, so why don't you just get to it and post your results? You seem to have ideas and capable friends to possibly help you implement them.
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shabby
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Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plus what to do when companies refuse to invest in the longer term of a product, because they gonna need to have another premiere on the next messe..

open source is good for development in general and it is a bout time hardware companies start using the prosphect, it is their products who benefit from it and als otheir (frustrated) users..
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DIY - actually means do it yourself, not do it for me for free. That's DIFMFF.

Lot's of people want free software. Not so many people who make software want to give it away for free. Lots of people will vote "yes" on the idea of the sofware, but when it comes to actually writing high quality software on a regular basis, they all seem to evaporate into thin air unless they have an employer who's willing to pay for them to participate.

Occasionally there are enough people who are willing and able to do this, sometimes it works, usually it doesn't. SourceForge has more than 200,000 projects, but not a large percentage of successful ones. The ones that are successful are very good, however.
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mikemolloyuk
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Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 748
Location: Milton Keynes, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Can I just say that if we allowed other people to make their own versions of free software we release we would have an impossible task of monitoring who used that software with our product if it was released online.

It's hard enough sometimes to support people with legitimate software and the conflicts that can arise from that. I have posted a few times on the issues of people trying to get support for Korg products being used with cracked versions of Cubase etc so to have any number of versions of editors out there causing unknown errors on systems is not a good idea.

Some of you may be very capable of writing these editors but would you be prepared to make yourself available to support someone who has connection issues and compatibility issues due to your programming changes without saying contact Korg?

Best

Mike
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MartinHines
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3035
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thuggy_bear wrote:
I'm not sure why you are offended enough to chance just about every post I have down and then scold me for it


I am "offended" because your criticism of Korg is extreme.

Also, given you are not a software developer (nor it appears, someone who understands the business implications of using and maintaining software) you don't have any real clue about what you are requesting.
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conkrete wrote:
@thuggy_bear: Look into the OP-1 from Teenage Engineering. It may be more along the lines of what you're expecting from KORG.


>Pounds head against wall<

A crossfade.
On my computer.
That would make creating a full bank of sounds a 30 minute job, instead of a four hour job.

Cross.
Fade.

Not a modular synth.
Not a hardware upgrade to the microSampler.
Not a back and forth playback on the mS.
Nothing different on the mS at all.

A crossfade. In the editor. Which runs on my computer.

Not an ASRX. Not more memory.

Crossfade. On the software that runs on my computer.

Cross.
Fade.

xmlguy wrote:
DIY - actually means do it yourself, not do it for me for free. That's DIFMFF.

Lot's of people want free software. Not so many people who make software want to give it away for free.


I build fix guitars for the members of my studio, as well as do the visual effects generation. They handle the thornier programming stuff.

Oh, and by the way, why do you care what my friends/bandmates are willing/able to do? I'm not asking YOU to do it, after all.


uktechsupport wrote:
Hi

Can I just say that if we allowed other people to make their own versions of free software we release we would have an impossible task of monitoring who used that software with our product if it was released online.

It's hard enough sometimes to support people with legitimate software and the conflicts that can arise from that. I have posted a few times on the issues of people trying to get support for Korg products being used with cracked versions of Cubase etc so to have any number of versions of editors out there causing unknown errors on systems is not a good idea.

Some of you may be very capable of writing these editors but would you be prepared to make yourself available to support someone who has connection issues and compatibility issues due to your programming changes without saying contact Korg?

Best

Mike


Ah.

Finally- an constructive answer.

Well, as for your concerns:

1) Since I am speaking only of the computer based sample editor/librarian, I think people would be relatively safe from harming their firmware on the mS. Again, I have not really been talking about the actually microSampler's operating system/code/whatever (though, if you check out the Canon Hacker's site, it makes one drool). Korg is a big company and with that, it is not hard to imagine that there is a great deal of bureaucracy with getting things approved for release, etc etc.

Laying out an API/SDK would mean that the editor would evolve much faster, and make people happier.

2) I think that you should not support people running cracked software, period.

3) People who download software for free do so at their own risk. If people sharing code is your concern, then we can agree to not share it. The two programmers to whom I am referring would like me to play some keyboard overdubs live for them. They watch me spending hours and hours performing what should be, in 2010, a fairly simple task, and are filling to spend a few hours adding a feature to our editor that would allow us all to be much happier. If we don't sell it, and it is a free download, how is it not a win-win situation? Not to mention the whole new market that could be opened up by all of the hackers out there.

Once I found out about the Canon hacks site, I bought a Canon.
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thuggy_bear



Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupac, do you have nothing better to do than chase down every post I write that is mildly critical, and scold me? ARe you looking to brown-nose your way into a job at Korg or something?

I work with software developers. I am a beta tester, and have been for more than 10 years, for visual effects software. I share my studio with two programmers who are willing to do the work.

Find another bridge to lurk under. As much as this amuses me.



MartinHines wrote:
thuggy_bear wrote:
I'm not sure why you are offended enough to chance just about every post I have down and then scold me for it


I am "offended" because your criticism of Korg is extreme.

Also, given you are not a software developer (nor it appears, someone who understands the business implications of using and maintaining software) you don't have any real clue about what you are requesting.
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