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- NOT RECEIVING SOUNDS FROM USB/MIDI? Read this -
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tpantano
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: - NOT RECEIVING SOUNDS FROM USB/MIDI? Read this - Reply with quote

If someone wants to write up a better way to describe this, please post and I'll edit it into this post.

So, you're not receiving sound when your Radias/R3 is hooked up to your computer via MIDI or USB.

Many a poster has joined to ask about this problem. Well, you made an easily excusable mistake; you believed that MIDI can transmit sound. However, this is incorrect.

MIDI is a format for electronic instruments to interact with other instruments, hence the name, Musical Instrument Digital Interface. All it is is a code that transmits information from your interaction with the keyboard, such as which note you press, usage of mod and pitch wheels, and turning of knobs.

However, MIDI does not transfer the sounds of your keyboard. (some keyboards such as the Access Virus can transfer over USB, which may have confused you. However, all Korg products at the time of writing do not have this feature) So, let's say you hit a C note on your Radias or R3. Whatever is hooked up to the keyboard via MIDI, such as a computer or another synthesizer, will know that you are hitting a C note. It will not, however, 'hear' the sound from your Radias or R3.

So you may be asking, what is the purpose of MIDI in the first place, if it can't transfer sound? Well, you can use it to control other synthesizers, and even synthesizers you can buy for your computer, called 'soft-synths' (software synthesizers). In fact, many people nowadays simply buy a MIDI controller and a lot of softsynths, so that they can have thousands of sounds all available from one box, their computer.

It is also useful if you do not like the keyboard attached to your R3/Radias; you can buy a dedicated MIDI keyboard with special options such as more knobs (which can be assigned to parameters on your R3/Radias), more octaves, weighted keys, and features like aftertouch.

Now, if MIDI is only for transferring information about key presses and knob turns, you're probably curious as to how you can record the sounds off or your Radias/R3. Well, you'd do it the same way you'd record any other instrument. The old-fashioned way to do it would be to use a microphone, then record the keyboards sounds being played through speakers. However, in the modern world, there is a better way to record.

You will need to buy 1/4' cables, and have a way to input them into your computer (a sound card). A 1/4' cable is a sound cable that you probably have seen a guitarist or bassist using:


You'll need to pick up two cables if you want to get all of the left/right effects out of your keyboard (trust me, it's definitely worth the few extra dollars.) Now, you need a way to input this into your computer. If you're going mono and just using one cable, plug into the left input of your R3/Radias. If you've decided to go with the much better option of stereo sound, plug into both the left and right inputs. (NEVER plug into the headphone input except for headphones, it has a lower sound quality and lower signal to noise ratios because of the amplifier used [thanks X-trade for this info]) Now, you'll need to plug the other ends of the cables into your computers inputs.

By default, most computers come with 1 1/8' input, usually for a microphone. You will only be able to do mono sound recording with this, unless you are lucky and either have a stereo jack or 2 1/8' inputs. In order to plug in your 1/4' cables to the 1/8' jacks, you'll need an adapter:


Now, this is not an optimal way to record your sound. It's always better to have two 1/4' inputs for your two 1/4' cables. If your computer does not have these by default, your best option is to purchase a sound card.

Sound cards are computer hardware used to record and play sounds. Your computer has one, by default, built into it by whatever company you purchased it from. However, it is generally weak, and won't have the necessary inputs you need to record your instrument with quality. You can purchase an upgrade to your sound card, though. There are two options available: External, or internal.

External are the most consumer-friendly type of sound cards. They usually use up a USB or Firewire port, and after a simple driver install you can connect your speakers and keyboard into it and voila, you're done, sound comes out of your new card. External cards also have a major advantage over internal ones; they can be moved around so as to avoid electrical noise from other electronics. However, there are two major disadvantages of an external card; they usually have slower latency (can't process sound as fast, although this has improved over the years) and are much more expensive. An external card I like is the Fast-track Pro:


Next up is internal cards. These are only for the tech savvy, or friend of someone who is tech savvy, as they will require you to open up your computer. These cards usually install inside a PCI or PCI-E slot on your motherboard, so you'll need to make sure you have a slot available. Since these cards connect directly into your computers motherboard, they have much lower latencies than externals. They also tend to be much cheaper, and the technology has been mastered for years; you can buy a card thats been around for 10 years (and is priced with that in mind) and still get a good recording out of it. Their disadvantage is that if they are near a noisy card such as a graphics card, they may pick up electrical noise, ruining your recording. However, some internal cards fix this problem by having a breakout box for your inputs, allowing you to have the latency of an internal and the noise reduction of an external. A card I like is the M-Audiophile 2496 (although you'll need to buy a 1/4' to RCA adapter):


After you've chosen a soundcard type, take a look at its specs. Make sure it has a decent mixing rate (I like 96khz and higher), that it has two sound inputs for your R3/Radias (Make sure it's two; even if it costs you a bit extra, it will definitely save you cash in the long run! Also, I like 1/4' and RCA connections best for quality), and finally, that it has the right output for your speakers! (you can't use your old sound card and new one at the same time, so this is important) Once your new card arrives, make sure to install your drivers, set it as the default card (in sound settings for an external, in the BIOS for an internal) and you're good to go!

Well, that's all I have for now. I hope this helps. Remember, if you're still having trouble, feel free to ask me or anyone else on this forum for advice! We're glad to help.
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Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886


Last edited by tpantano on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks tpantano, this is great. I get the feeling that I will be referring people to this though rather than them reading it in the first place.

Very useful!


I'd like to add that it is a bad idea to record from the Headphones output because you get a lower sound quality, and lower signal to noise ratio, due to the headphone amplifier.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
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tpantano
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Trade wrote:
Thanks tpantano, this is great. I get the feeling that I will be referring people to this though rather than them reading it in the first place.

Very useful!


I'd like to add that it is a bad idea to record from the Headphones output because you get a lower sound quality, and lower signal to noise ratio, due to the headphone amplifier.


Thank you. Yep, I bet it'll be more referring than finding, most people don't even glance at the stickies lol.

And also thanks for the headphone info, I always knew not to use it but was never sure why.
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Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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axxim
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good tpantano. I would have bet, X-trade would be the first on creating such a sticky Wink
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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job T !

I changed this to a sticky as soon I read it, fantastic !

Thank you.

Daz.
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axxim wrote:
Very good tpantano. I would have bet, X-trade would be the first on creating such a sticky Wink


Ah, the thought had crossed my mind, but I rarely have time to sit down and write something like this, in a well thought out manner in good English. I have enough trouble keeping up with all my other work commitments at the moment. Otherwise, yes, I would probably have got there first.

I'll probably host an article along similar lines on my website eventually anyway.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
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tpantano
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a high school student, I have too much free time on my hands, so i thought I'd just write this up to help all the people who keep posting about it.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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colinf
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: poor quality recording level using my setup Reply with quote

very well explained article, very usefull, thank you

I use a fast track pro, using one channel ( left , = mono ) from my Yamaha rs7000 output and left, = mono from my Radias. using the 1/4 inch jacks connected to the input 1/4 inch jacks of the Fastrack Pro.

i then use one trs 1/4 inch jack output socket from the back of the Pro using a stereo lead to a 1/8 inch adaptor, this plugs into my sound card in my laptop.
the RESULT, if I turn the output up on the Pro and set the record level on the laptop, i get a recording with is at low volume level !.
if i turn it up too much it distorts the recorded sound.
HOW DO I GET ROUND THIS ?
can you help .
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: poor quality recording level using my setup Reply with quote

colinf wrote:
very well explained article, very usefull, thank you

I use a fast track pro, using one channel ( left , = mono ) from my Yamaha rs7000 output and left, = mono from my Radias. using the 1/4 inch jacks connected to the input 1/4 inch jacks of the Fastrack Pro.

i then use one trs 1/4 inch jack output socket from the back of the Pro using a stereo lead to a 1/8 inch adaptor, this plugs into my sound card in my laptop.
the RESULT, if I turn the output up on the Pro and set the record level on the laptop, i get a recording with is at low volume level !.
if i turn it up too much it distorts the recorded sound.
HOW DO I GET ROUND THIS ?
can you help .



The FastTrack Pro is an Audio Interface. It has the Analog to Digital (ADC) and Digital to Analog (DAC) Converters in it. It is in effect an external USB soundcard, and you would select the FTP as the audio input in your software.

The idea is that you connect it by USB. I don't know where you got the idea to connect it to your laptop's audio jacks from, and that is where the problem is. Most laptop input jacks are designed for microphones and so have a preamp in them which will introduce distortion - it is not designed for line-level signals.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
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colinf
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x trade, many thanks for your reply,
I was mistaken then , i will use the usb connection
again many thanks
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colinf
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x trade
what software should i use for multitrack recording ?
thank you
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tpantano
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

colinf wrote:
x trade
what software should i use for multitrack recording ?
thank you


depends.

since your on a mac, you have garageband to start with.

from there you can expand into options like logic, reason, cubase...
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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colinf
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: software use with fast track pro Reply with quote

thanks for the reply , tried your setup with USB cable , almost worked had high levels showing on my laptop sound control but NO sound.
and then altered some setting in mixer which stopped the meters showing any level.
may need to set it up differntly on my sound card.
does the signal convert from analoque to digital ? is this why no sound ? not sure what you mean by FTP setup, i dont have any software loaded on my laptop its not a MAC , its Windows 7 and have upgraded the drivers for the Fast track Pro.
can you suggest a way forward.
thanks
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tpantano
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: software use with fast track pro Reply with quote

colinf wrote:
thanks for the reply , tried your setup with USB cable , almost worked had high levels showing on my laptop sound control but NO sound.
and then altered some setting in mixer which stopped the meters showing any level.
may need to set it up differntly on my sound card.
does the signal convert from analoque to digital ? is this why no sound ? not sure what you mean by FTP setup, i dont have any software loaded on my laptop its not a MAC , its Windows 7 and have upgraded the drivers for the Fast track Pro.
can you suggest a way forward.
thanks


oh sorry thought u had a mac.

yes, signal is analog to digital, no, that's not why there's no sound... you know you need to connect speakers/headset to the fast track pro, right?

if you need free software for windows, there's audacity, but its really terrible... a low cost option is Cakewalk Music Creator
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Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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colinf
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: fast track pro and Laptop Reply with quote

tpantano
many thanks for the reply, got it working after a lot of messing around sound comes from my laptop speakers plus my amp.
works fine and recorded about 55 minutes of tracks, will post some short sounds / tracks on you tube very soon.
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