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it cant be all bad can it???
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gel



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 11
Location: england

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: it cant be all bad can it??? Reply with quote

alot of negativity about the ms on here. having owned mpcs and electribes, i was drawn to the keyboard. my ms should be here any day now, just hope its what i think it is. anyone got anything positive to say about it?
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Griffin Avid
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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Location: New York NY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. It does what it says on the tin.
It does what it was designed to do....

and that's be a microSAMPLER. A MICRO--sampler.

It's not a drum machine.
It's not a groove box.
It's not a ROMpler.

It's not the brain for your studio.
It's not a reason to sell everything else in your studio.

It makes a great FIRST sampler.
It is not a sampling worksation.

Sounds great, it's easy to use and fast on its feet.
USB Drag and drop and the soft editor is a plus.
Internal sequencer is adequate for making drum patterns- and the sound banks hold a lot of samples.

Minor workflow niggles are the limitation of only having one part pitched up and down the keyboard at a time and the inability to load samples by name and with any kind of audition.

-------------

The anger and general 'hate' stems from users being upset at KORG for coming so close to perfection. 2 or 3 more features and well.....
A lot of people were hoping this was the secong coming of the sampler.
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benedictjohnson



Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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Location: Englishman in South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Good things about the Microsampler Reply with quote

Hi,

I bought a Microsampler yesterday so I can tell you my first impressions while they're still fresh..

I've successfully exported clips out of Ableton Live and loaded them onto the MicroSampler via USB, played them back on the keyboard, arranged them in the pattern sequencer and triggered between BPM-synced patterns automatically without relying on my own timing (exactly like Ableton Live).

It does all this well. That's what I bought it for, to use for loop playback instead of a laptop for live performance in my rock band. As far as performance goes, I suspect that's all it's useful for.

I was half hoping I could do some live sampling or live loop-capture from an mp3 players etc as part of the performance. I was fascinated by the remixing idea of being able to take any samples from different songs and pitch-shift/BPM-sync them so they go together. Imagine the possibilities...

But alas, even though the hardware is capable of doing this, it isn't suitable for real-time spontaneity. Scrolling though pages of sub-menus is something to do before hand and saved.
Not a problem if you don't mind doing it before hand - but if you're going to do that, you might as well use a computer, which can do it faster and more precisely.
However saying that, I've see beatboxers do some very impressive things with the sample-slots in the Kaosspad 3, which has similar functionality but a different interface.

I hope that helps!
BEN
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Griffin Avid
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"even though the hardware is capable of doing this, it isn't suitable for real-time spontaneity. Scrolling though pages of sub-menus is..."

Pressing the EDIT button and a KEY is a shortcut to EVERY function. Use that instead of menus.

If you didn't see, above every key is a label. That's a menu heading. This actually makes the microSAMPLER THE fastest workflow for sampling.

Try to use that and let us know what you think.
Also congrats on your purchase and don't forget to post some of your tunes.
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benedictjohnson



Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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Location: Englishman in South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice Mr Avid, I certainly need all the help as I can get!
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GOT: MicroSampler, MicroKorg (original)

HAD: MicroKorg XL, Nord Electro 3 73, Roland Sonic Cell, Novation Xiosynth 49, Electribe EA-1 mk2, Electribe ER-1 mk2, Triton LE61, Novation A-Station, X5DR, Novation Bass Station, X5

STUDIO: iMac 3.33GHz/4GB RAM, Ableton Live 6, NI Komplete 7, M-Audio Keystation 88, NanoKontrol
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benedictjohnson



Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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Location: Englishman in South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more time, a massive thanks to Griffin Avid for pointing out the key-shortcuts for editing. It makes everything easier and certainly makes a lot more sense that trying to scroll through those menus with those dials.

I'm getting the hang of the MicroSampler now; particularly it's real time loop capturing from line-in audio source capabilities. The hardest thing is getting the BPM right and pressing the sample button at exactly the right time. I don't suppose you have any hot tips for that?

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GOT: MicroSampler, MicroKorg (original)

HAD: MicroKorg XL, Nord Electro 3 73, Roland Sonic Cell, Novation Xiosynth 49, Electribe EA-1 mk2, Electribe ER-1 mk2, Triton LE61, Novation A-Station, X5DR, Novation Bass Station, X5

STUDIO: iMac 3.33GHz/4GB RAM, Ableton Live 6, NI Komplete 7, M-Audio Keystation 88, NanoKontrol
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Griffin Avid
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPM right and pressing the sample button at exactly the right time...

For BPM, it's a matter of tap tempo to get close and then usually a small twist of the Value Edit to dial it in to an exact BPM.

Starting the sampling in and out points takes a little practice to get the timing down.

Mostly I just do everything on the 1 and break right on the end of the bar for loops. Wow, I just read that back and it doesn't...really...help...

For one shots or something I want to loop myself (so I don't have to worry so much about the end point), I mostly want the front of the sample right and that would be GATE MODE.
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Griffin Avid
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you been watching all the videos on this forum?
The Rich Formidoni ones are excellent.
Also there's the PDF EZ_Start guide that's worth reading...
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kilon



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It pains me that people really dont appreciate microsampler. Everyone seems to cry for impressive specs. But why ?

But I think they miss two points :

1) Korg build something that is unique , flexible, easy and extremely portable

2) Its a simple tool, and a simple idea, but its resample ability is just a nuclear bomb for such a :micro"sampler. The ability to rsampel to infinity , tha ability to layer unlimited samples, layer unlimited track, can be used and abused beyond any proportion.

Its like a piece of paper, its simple, but can the basis of great art. Also its ease of use, blows any tools I ever used. If you got an idea and the right samples, micorsampelr will help you realise it in seconds.
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beatifictatter
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All samplers these days can 'resample' to infinity, it's not really a selling point for most people wanting good workflow, and unique features in hardware that make it easier to use live/studio than software samplers, or existing samplers. The Roland sp series all 'resample' and kills the microsampler for effects and vibe, and all banks are accessible at once. But they're a pain in other ways. I don't see how these companies always get something important wrong....oh yeah, so we buy the next one.
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Griffin Avid
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are both right. The microSAMPLER is sitting in the middle as the most well-rounded, but it's a little shy of replacing any other product.

If you want to trigger one-shots and chop beats you're better off with a heavyweight like the EMX-1.

A small ROMpler then it's the microSTATION.

Process samples then it's the Kaoss-sampler.

I would love to be able to replace my ASR-10. I want sampling options at that quality level with the modern benefit of SD Storage and USB. I'm not even sure if I want KORG to make this fantasy. They keep adding more and more sample time/storage, but keep the outdated 99 slots with names 00-99 and no pre-load audition.
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kilon



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beatifictatter wrote:
All samplers these days can 'resample' to infinity, it's not really a selling point for most people wanting good workflow, and unique features in hardware that make it easier to use live/studio than software samplers, or existing samplers. The Roland sp series all 'resample' and kills the microsampler for effects and vibe, and all banks are accessible at once. But they're a pain in other ways. I don't see how these companies always get something important wrong....oh yeah, so we buy the next one.



there is no keyboard that I know of that can do this in 500 euros price range , microsampler is the only one I am aware of. Roland SPs are pad samplers, not keyboards. Which means if you want to play melodies with your samples then microsampler will just erase SP from the map.

Also resampling with sampler is a pain, requires alot of menu diving. Trust me I know , because I happen to own a Motif ES6 which has one the most powerfull if not the most powerful sampler on the market. Since microsampler has no menus, it makes this process super fast . It just blows my mind how much Korg streamlined the process. Navigating with the knob through the parameters its so easy. MApping notes to parameters , makes me wonder why I have not seen this before to all the keyboards I have used and reviewed. IT speeds up parameter editing so much.I have not even felt the need to read the manual yet. I am very impressed.

Resampling is so incredible, you make new sounds , you can use and abuse it in so many ways. Its the single most important thing ever happened to the sampling world. You resample and the resample and then resample amillion times and all that with using zero additional memory. It gives the power to continuously shape your sound without any limitation, I can not see how anything other can seem more important. Sure Microsampler has its weaknesses, no attack parameter, no octave change, a single keyboard part, the filter is used only as a effect no modulation and pitch wheel, and many others but it is not as if there is anything out there for microsampler to compete with. So something is much better than nothing.

MS is far from perfect but it certainly does not deserve all the beating it gets here . Korg makes a revolutionary product , in market that is slowly dying . And its seem like any other revolutionary product it will share the fate of rejection, like Yamaha VL1, Hartman Neuron , Alesis Fusion and many many others .And yet people cry for innovation and for constant updates. Good luck waiting for the dream product, I am sticking with my quite "real" microsampler. Peace!
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beatifictatter
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffinavid, I totally agree with you on all points.

Kilon, resampling is no big deal...I agree that it's super important in designing sound and stumbling upon loops you hadn't even imagined. I'm a big animal collective/panda bear fan, so believe me, I like to 'resample'.
But it's not a new feature. Roland sp samplers have done it for years. And basically you're just adding an effect and saving it. Hardly a big deal in today's world of VERY good vst effects like soundtoys etc.and the keyboard is nothing new....casio sk series did it in the 80s. The new aspect was being able to spread the samples across keys in keyboard mode as well as regular sampling to pad/keys. But they made it so fiddly to change samples that swapping sounds in keyboard mode is redundant in any kind of busy live situation....so I might as well just plug a midi keyboard in to my sp-555 for any kind of rompler stuff. I then get more samples/octaves to hand (without lengthy microsampler bank change or fiddly keyboard mode sampler change) of multi-sampled instruments, one-shots, loops etc. Than I have on the MS. Plus MUCH better effects. And yes, I can resample as well....the only good thing about the microsampler is for grabbing samples, light production work. For live use it's totally crippled/wasted potential by two or three workflow killers and inaccurate/fiddly dial selection methods. Not to mention lack of memory, stupid holes for iPods that fall over and sunken rotary dials. Could have been really good. Turns out it's something that is handy for grabbing samples and messing around on, but as griffinavid says, doesn't do anything well enough to replace any of my other samplers/synths/romplers or warrant
the £380 that I paid.
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gel



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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Location: england

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was a toy. something to mess about on,which is all very well, but not for that price tag. well over priced. Crying or Very sad
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kilon



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beatifictatter wrote:
Griffinavid, I totally agree with you on all points.

Kilon, resampling is no big deal...I agree that it's super important in designing sound and stumbling upon loops you hadn't even imagined. I'm a big animal collective/panda bear fan, so believe me, I like to 'resample'.
But it's not a new feature. Roland sp samplers have done it for years. And basically you're just adding an effect and saving it. Hardly a big deal in today's world of VERY good vst effects like soundtoys etc.and the keyboard is nothing new....casio sk series did it in the 80s. The new aspect was being able to spread the samples across keys in keyboard mode as well as regular sampling to pad/keys. But they made it so fiddly to change samples that swapping sounds in keyboard mode is redundant in any kind of busy live situation....so I might as well just plug a midi keyboard in to my sp-555 for any kind of rompler stuff. I then get more samples/octaves to hand (without lengthy microsampler bank change or fiddly keyboard mode sampler change) of multi-sampled instruments, one-shots, loops etc. Than I have on the MS. Plus MUCH better effects. And yes, I can resample as well....the only good thing about the microsampler is for grabbing samples, light production work. For live use it's totally crippled/wasted potential by two or three workflow killers and inaccurate/fiddly dial selection methods. Not to mention lack of memory, stupid holes for iPods that fall over and sunken rotary dials. Could have been really good. Turns out it's something that is handy for grabbing samples and messing around on, but as griffinavid says, doesn't do anything well enough to replace any of my other samplers/synths/romplers or warrant
the £380 that I paid.


Resample is a new thing and a big deal when you are the only keyboard in the marktet at that price range that can do this , and still be extremely portable. Actually belay that, it is a huge deal.

Sp-555 is a totally diffirent thing. I did not even consider it when I was searching the market, I needed a keyboard. Plug a keyboard to it ? That does not make it MS, and kills the portability factor. ITs a hack, with its own advantages, but a hack nonetheless. Oh and I dont even consider the fact that SP 555 consts 150 euros more, add another 100 for a keyboard and kiss your price range bye bye. You seem to compare unequal things and demand KORG to make it equal. Why ?

iPod like computers is a completely unfair comparison for ms, be realistic dont expect KORG to do miracles with MS that sells in thousands against something that sells in millions. No synth ever managed to compete with a computer when it comes to features, and iphone/ipod touch is a computer. Actually I considered that option too, but I chose MS , because I prefered a more self contained solution. But yes I agree, a Keyboard and an ipod touch is infinete better solution than ms. But then I find that hardly suprising for the above reason.

Sell your MS and if you find a better keyboard that does what MS is doing, I am going to sell my MS too. And I am dead serious. Until, then , yes I am still not getting all your negativity. If you did not really need MS why you bought it in the first place, if other products suited your needs like iphone why you did not buy/stick with them ?

Its not as if Korg advisrtise MS as the holy grail, there is a product page, loads of youtube and online reviews and several forums . I think its not that hard to find out what MS can or cannot do. Whether Korg decides to improve its totally their business, they basically offer a product , you buy it and thats the end of the story. IF it does what it adverises I dont see where is the problem. If it does not do it the way you like it, its your opnion and you got every right to express it. But then Its also m my right to ask why ? Why all this negativity ?

And its not as if any product out there at some point will not frustrate you. I happen to own an Alesis Andromed A6 ,its an amazing synth, but there are day I want to brake it into pieces.

You say you agree with Griffin, but from your post you dont seem so.
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