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it cant be all bad can it???
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beatifictatter
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you're saying, and I agree in places. I just wanted a couple of updates to make it function well live in the way that it was obviously intended to. If they'd just made it so you could hold the 'keyboard' mode button and hit the key for the sample you want to spread, it would have been a lot more functional. It's ridiculously inaccurate/fiddly/slow to do it with the dial. And I wanted rid of the factory sample bank to free up a considerable percentage of overall memory. Again, a very easy update. There are countless other things that could have been improved with an update, but to me those are the two most obvious/easily improved and would have made a huge difference.

I won't be selling it because it's fun and quick to mess around on and grab samples and come up with ideas and always nice to have another set of keys/bank of samples to hand for gigs.but I needed something more functional in a busy live environment...i jumped in without waiting for reviews or trying it out, there was no way to know it had so many little issues. Or else I would have stuck with sp-555 and midi keyboard.
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lloydsmith
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Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really guys - you are both being too kind to it. LOL

KORG themselves implied through their marketing that the MS is a sick live tool. I think sick in the old sense of the word rather than the new.

Its SILLY shortcomings mean that I have to resort to a computer for workarounds meaning - well I might as well use my DAW for the rest of the task.

Oh it's portable - well - ish. I took it for a nice walk by the sea the other day so that's a plus.

The Microsampler is Jack of all & master of nothing at all. It's well below average at many tasks that should be within its remit. Everytime I want to do something with it- I come up against silly obstacles & restrictions.

I've really been too nice to it for far too long. It just looks so forlorn sitting there & I so wanted to love it - it's a real 'Trouble Child'. LOL

Surely the reason to favour hardware over software is not feature-set but tactility & immediacy - something the Microsampler & therefore the user struggles with.

It's too late for this product but KORG need to be looking at better s/w/h/w integration - maybe they are and the MS was just a stop-gap box to shift - after living with it - it sure feels like one to me.

Personally - I now actually WANT the MS to have a bad rep as it may wake KORG Japan up to realise that they have taken the wrong path with this design philosophy & it is hurting their sales & reputation. It doesn't feel like they care about the user at all - but they may listen if they have lost profit. Sadly they will probably blame the recession rather than any policy errors - I believe they could well be that arrogant.

If people are happy with the MicroSampler that's cool - but new users rigorously defending its virtues have less credibility in my eyes than the opinions of long term 'power' user - people more technically adept than myself I have to say - who have still found it wanting in so many areas.

My Kurzweil experience couldn't be more different - the PC3 I have may be in a different price bracket but if the MS experience is a gateway to KORG ownership I think I'll take another route thanks very much.

Infuriatingly I shall probably want the KRONOS if it turns out to be something GENUINELY new (when WAS the last time any of the big guys offered that btw) but I will most definitely fight the temptation until I have read user opinions on forum such as these.

So you see KORG - not that you will be reading this - what the little people think DOES matter. Rolling Eyes
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Griffin Avid
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 171
Location: New York NY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit of all the products they offer sections for, the microSAMPLER area seems filled with the most controversy. It may be only a few people, but if I read all of this, I dunno. Usually on forums you read tech support stuff: How do I, this function doesn't work etc...

Here, it's all complaints about what KORG could have done different/better. I think the cat is out the bag. Everyone that has any hands-on time with the microSAMPLER has the same basic complaints.
Only one sample in keyboard mode...and the whole cumbersome sample librarian or bank(s) arrangement.

The only one sample pitched across the keys is probably a hard programming fix- if it's not tied directly to the hardware itself. So that's a
'next generation update'.

Live monitoring while playing back or the other live-minded niggles I'm not so sure about. That could also be hardware/engine related and is probably a next generation consideration.

KORG is really stuck on their limited naming conventions and never having a pre-load audition system before you commit to loading a sample. That would involve streaming from the internal bank or SD card. No other product has that so I wouldn't ever expect that change.

Selecting a sample with the Keyboard is a *simple* OS update but if they don't plan to "fix" anything else then that little bit of fiddly-ness might stay.

KORG is very good about updating a line. If the microSAMPLER proved popular, you'd be more likely to see new versions down the line with the requested modifications. I said somewhere else that they did exactly as they were asked going from the Kaossilator to the K-Pro.

A microSAMPLER XL would be awesome.
*basically add what was asked for.
Supports Sample Layers (multiple sampler per key-triggered by velocity [only 8 layers])
MIDI clock in and out and options for sync.

A microSAMPLER PRO would be extremely awesome.
Two and a half octaves of full sized keys.
16 electribe Pads on top.
Supports Sample Layers (multiple sampler per key-triggered by velocity)
Load 4 Banks at a time!
MIDI clock in and out and options for sync. Also for controlling other gear.
*** Or slap a keyboard on an electribe ESX-1
-----------
Aside from all of that, I saw a post, I think it was this forum that was long winded about pops or gaps and someone was trying to port over or create patches from another keyboard on the microSAMPLER and was disappointed about the quality or lack of multi-sampling tools. I remember reading that and thinking, Does this guy really know what he bought? Who expected something that's called a microSAMPLER to be the sampling host of his keyboard collection. minikeys excluded....

Honestly we all need to face the fact that this is a first generation product.
The SP-555 follows a long legacy of Roland boxed samplers. and even then a lot of users said the SP-555 wasn't the best option and the cheaper SP 404 was a better sampler.

I liked everything about the 555, the pads, the look and the fact that it was an audio interface. I didn't even know that was a feature until I plugged in the USB to get the Soft Editor going and it showed up as a recording channel in my DAW. wow. I had real problems with the 555 saving patterns on the same pads that holds the samples. Very confusing system of saving songs/patterns/samples. That needed a TOTAL overhaul.

And on top of that, the SP 606 was known as the True all-in-one sampling workstation/production piece and that was murdered (feature-wise)by the Yamaha RS700. So it's a Rock, Paper Scissors universe when it comes to sampling.
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nowaysj



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beatifictatter wrote:
Kilon, resampling is no big deal...I agree that it's super important in designing sound and stumbling upon loops you hadn't even imagined. I'm a big animal collective/panda bear fan, so believe me, I like to 'resample'.
But it's not a new feature. Roland sp samplers have done it for years.


Just like to shed a little light on this because it is a little misleading. The sp 404 can technically resample, but it can't overdub. This is huge. If you make a beat with the sp, you can't plug in your microkorg and sample a synth line while the beat is playing. That is a deal breaker.

In terms of resampling, it's abilities are extremely weak. You can't program a beat, and then resample that. You just can't do it. That's a deal breaker too.

I just, like today, got a micro sampler, and to my knowledge you can do both of these things, and that is huge. The possibilities are endless when you can do REAL resampling and overdubbing.

And this is not new by any stretch of the imagination. My asr-x has been resampling and overdubing (the real kind) since the 90's.
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beatifictatter
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the 404 is lame/no-go for overdubbing. 555 is better. But both do 'real' resampling, which is what was being discussed.

I admit the microsampler is cool/fun/quick for typical sampling and resampling, except for memory limits and bank loading/switching.

I just hate the keyboard mode and some other general workflow killers.
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nowaysj



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 404 does not do real resampling. You cannot program a beat and resample it. The mere ability to apply fx is not true resampling. I think it was the 303 that did the real resampling, which is why all those tracks produced on the 303 are dope.
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beatifictatter
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Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, You can't resample patterns on the 404. I'm not an expert on terminology or timeline of features being introduced, but seems to me like resampling patterns would have been introduced after resampling pads with fx etc? Meaning that the 404 does do real resampling, but doesn't resample patterns. It doesn't really matter though. I agree with you that that is the 404s biggest flaw. Still a dope sampler though, especially for live use/in conjunction with another sampler.
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nowaysj



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 404 is a serious mojo box. I love it.

I own it.

But I think I'm going to sell both my 1 day old ms and the 35 day old sp404sx and get something like maybe the sp 555, or 606 or maybe even the 808...

Really I'm at a loss. I really like bits of both the 404 and the ms. If I had to choose, I'd keep the 404, far more mojo, and working with the ms's fiddly little knobs, I thought I could hack it, but f*ck I hate them.

Kind of depressed about this situation. I'm really liking making beats off of the computer but both of these samplers have major downsides. I guess the quest continues, but this is getting very expensive and time consuming. I really just want to make beats.
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xmlguy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3605

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 606 is the best because it has an LCD display for editing samples. It also has step sequencing, software editor interface, and velocity pads. The 404 has none of that. The 606 is limited to 512MB CF flash, but that's still a lot. The 555 was a step backward vs. the 606, in my opinion. The looper on the 555 can't save loops to pads without stopping playback, which makes it rather useless for live looping with multiple layers. Editing samples by ear really sucks on the 404 and 555. I've owned them all.
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L'eclipse Nue



Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: I hate to admit it.... Reply with quote

...but I have to agree with many of the negative criticisms of the Microsampler. I especially agree with much of what Beatifictatter wrote in this topic.

When I was writing songs, I was able to deal with the Microsampler's limitations. Particularly as I was able to go back and forth between the MS and the computer.

Now that I'm getting ready to do some gigs, however, I am feeling the pain of the user interface.

For me, these are the problems I have with using it live:
1. Like Beatifictatter said, the memory is needlessly limited. That means I need to carry more gear to the gig to do what I need to do. That is a shame, really.
2. The effects are too troublesome to manipulate. I'm a one-man unit, so I've got other stuff to handle. It messes up my flow. Again, that means more heavy crap that I need to carry and hook up in order to do things that the MS itself is theoretically capable of.
3. Yeah, if there wasn't such a delay between bank changes, then I wouldn't need to carry a looper along with me. Yes, another heavy thing that I shouldn't really need.
(I live in the city, without a car, so....hence the emphasis on carrying and packaging stuff up.)

There are other annoying things as well, but those 3 things are most irritating to me at the moment.

All that said, I can't afford to replace my Microsampler with something else, so I'm determined (forced) to get it to work for me somehow, even for doing it live.
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piplefou



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Delft, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that many people expect too much from the microSAMPLER and then are let down by its capabilities. Probably the only alternative in this price range is a (second-hand?) computer based solution. You get A LOT of extra functionality, but of course, it's not a 'normal' instrument anymore.

Most people are expecting workstation type of capabilities from the instrument, because it offers so much different types functionality. But there's indeed a limit to all these separate functions (multi-samples, memory, keys, and the sequencer in particular).

I basically agree with Griffin Avid's suggestions.
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johnschwarz



Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: I hate to admit it.... Reply with quote

L'eclipse Nue wrote:
...

Now that I'm getting ready to do some gigs, however, I am feeling the pain of the user interface.


have any show footage?
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Re-Member
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 657

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin Avid wrote:
A microSAMPLER XL would be awesome.
*basically add what was asked for.
Supports Sample Layers (multiple sampler per key-triggered by velocity [only 8 layers])
MIDI clock in and out and options for sync.


I was under the impression that the microSAMPLER does receive and transmit MIDI clock data. I don't own one yet, but I downloaded the manual and it goes into how to set things up on pages 43 & 44. Can anyone confirm that it does this? This is kind of a make or break deal for me.

I look at the machine as a clever way of sequencing out a backing track cut up into samples that can also be used as a keyboard for playing additional melodies on. Believe me, having to bring and set up a separate drum machine, sequencer or tape machine on stage that only serves one purpose gets old quick.

If it does indeed send out MIDI clock data, that means I can sync the arpeggiators and mod sequencers from my other synthesizers to it. This is something you can't do on the Roland SP samplers (I used to own the SP-303), or even a tape machine for that matter.
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Horvath



Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Posts: 31
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-Member wrote:
Can anyone confirm that it does this? This is kind of a make or break deal for me.

Yes, it can send MIDI-clock, set manually or by the tap tempo button, and receive clock as well.
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Gear: Kaossilator, KP3, R3, Wavedrum, microSampler, padKontrol, PX4D | Shure WH20, Godin ACS-SA, Fernandes Tremor 5X, Boss RC-50, Roland GR-20, Novation Zero SL MkII, Emagic AMT8, Soundcraft Compact 10
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stevestrange



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-Member wrote:
Griffin Avid wrote:
A microSAMPLER XL would be awesome.
*basically add what was asked for.
Supports Sample Layers (multiple sampler per key-triggered by velocity [only 8 layers])
MIDI clock in and out and options for sync.


I was under the impression that the microSAMPLER does receive and transmit MIDI clock data. I don't own one yet, but I downloaded the manual and it goes into how to set things up on pages 43 & 44. Can anyone confirm that it does this? This is kind of a make or break deal for me.

I look at the machine as a clever way of sequencing out a backing track cut up into samples that can also be used as a keyboard for playing additional melodies on. Believe me, having to bring and set up a separate drum machine, sequencer or tape machine on stage that only serves one purpose gets old quick.

If it does indeed send out MIDI clock data, that means I can sync the arpeggiators and mod sequencers from my other synthesizers to it. This is something you can't do on the Roland SP samplers (I used to own the SP-303), or even a tape machine for that matter.


you should read my response to you in the "microSampler's midi clock out" thread -- the MS is not going to be a good solution for you, trust me. you should look into an Akai MPC-1000 - that can absolutely drive a live set in the way you're wanting the MS to
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