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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| buggs1a wrote: | Lol. Um: I created the Reverb in the Korg.
So can I export it to pc and then use reason to do what you've suggested up ^? |
You could export the drum loop as a .wav file and import it to Reason in either the NN-19 or NN-XT sampler. So long as you take the KORG reverb off first you've now got a clean drum loop that you can sequence in the piano roll, and you could add reverb using the RV7000 as an Auxiliary send & return in the mixer. You won't have control of the tempo - you'd have to set Reason to the correct BPM for the loop. Record can time-stretch ordinary .wav loops; Reason can't - it can only time stretch .rex loops.
You couldn't do the more advanced stuff in my last post - there's no way to separate out the hits with a normal loop. If it was a .rex file you could use the slice outputs on the back of the Dr OctoRex, but to turn an ordinary loop into a .rex file you need another Propellerhead program called ReCycle, and it's stupidly expensive for what it does at US$249.
Just try working your way through the examples I gave above using ReDrum - it's honestly not as complicated as I've made it look.
Incidentally, you don't necessarily have to use all the outputs for all 10 of the ReDrum channels. If you leave the main outs of the Redrum connected to channel one of the mixer you can just connect the individual outs for the channel you want to process separately (the snare in the examples above).
When you connect any of the individual ReDrum outs it automatically removes them from the main outs. So you could just use the individual outs for one or more channels if you want to process them separately, while everything else will still be going through the main outs. Much simpler wiring then.
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There's another possibility too. Many of the ReDrum patches have more than one snare sound, often three. If you want to process all three together the easiest way to do it is to create a 6:2 line mixer (a much smaller simpler mixer than the 14:2) and connect the 6:2 to a channel in the the 14:2 mixer (the connection will probably have been made automatically when you created the 6:2).
Then connect the three snare channels from the ReDrum to the 6:2. Now you use the 6:2 as a sub-mixer for the snares, the 6:2 is connected to a channel on the 14:2, and you can process all three snares with the effects you've got connected to the Aux Sends in the 14:2.
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There's also another and much simpler way of processing individual channels on the ReDrum. When you create the ReDrum it automatically wires the first two Auxiliary channels of the 14:2 mixer to the ReDrum by a connection called the Chaining Aux on the back of the 14:2.
If you look at the Redrum for each channel you'll see two little knobs labelled S1 and S2. These control the level of the effects that are connected to the Aux 1 & 2 on the 14:2. This is the easiest way to set effects on each individual Redrum sound, but it's less flexible than doing it the way I've described above, and you've only got 2 effects sends, not 4.
As I said earlier, there's always more than one way of doing anything on Reason. Which method you choose normally comes down to how much flexibility and control you want. |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. I just tried reason 5. I connected to my pc using my iPad and controlled my pc.
It's called like, reason 5 test 1 I think. I don't know why after 33 seconds or so is just silence.
Also I don't like/not used to how you have to hit the record button to make a song. I thought you'd just make patterns and then be able to save it/play as a song not just currently selected pattern.
I know the clap and other sound is loud. I didn't change volume being this is my first try. |
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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by
| Quote: | | Also I don't like/not used to how you have to hit the record button to make a song. I thought you'd just make patterns and then be able to save it/play as a song not just currently selected pattern. |
Were you using the method of recording patterns to the sequencer track for ReDrum that I described earlier? That's in my post on page 4 of this thread and it's headed "A Reason/Redrum mini-tutorial". There's a section called "About using the step sequencer in ReDrum" that describes how to record your patterns to the sequencer, either live by clicking on each pattern as it records, or editing them in by hand. That's how you make a song, and then you can save it or play it, and it will play back whatever patterns you've recorded, not just the currently selected one.
I'm not sure why there is the silence at the end - if you're still using the demo you can't save a song (and it sounds like you are still re-recording the output from the speakers).
If you've bought Reason, and you are saving the song using the "export song as audio file" function from the File menu, the silence is because the song is set to the default length of 100 bars.
If you scroll along the song, at 100 bars there's a black line with a box at the top that says "E". This is the marker for the end of the song - you can drag it to wherever you want, so if your song is only 8 bars long you'd drag it to somewhere around the end of the tenth bar (the extra two bars is to give enough time for any effects like reverb or echo to die away naturally). |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. I made a couple Patterns and did what you said. Hit record then clicked a pattern and another one. That doesn't seem right though. At least compared to other apps. In others you just make patterns and thats all. Like the Korg.
To me it seems stupid doing it manually like this. That's why when my pattern changed from the first to second is not in the right spot. If it did this how I am thinking then it would play each pattern in the order I made them. That's it. Simple. However this way you said can be a way of only making one pattern for each instead of duplicating the same pattern over and over. So in that way it makes sense. I'm just used to making a pattern and copying it etc and doing it that way.
The song silence was because I didn't know about the bar thing whatever that is. This is another complicated and confusing thing. If it was saving the patterns in my order it would just stop after my last pattern.
Did the beat seem sorta ok?
Ok. You mentioned putting the patterns in song by hand. I think this would work for me. So how's that done?
Since this is so off topic I wonder if we could take the reason stuff to somewhere else. Like I this forum has a general part or section or something. |
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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to be able to give this topic much more - I've been on vacation so I've had plenty of time, but I'm back at work now and it's getting fairly busy.
The info on how to edit the patterns you've recorded is in the same section of the post where I told you how to record them - in the bit headed "About using the step sequencer in ReDrum":
| Quote: | You can edit the patterns that you've recorded; look at the track you've recorded for the ReDrum - there are little blue boxes labelled A1 or A2 or whatever. If you click on one you'll see that the pattern has a little black triangle pointing down. Click on this and it will give you a list of all the patterns which you can choose from.
You can also shorten or lengthen the pattern. Say you meant to do two bars of A1 but you've accidentally done three. Click on the pattern to select it and there are two arrows that point left and right. Click on the right arrow, drag to the left and it will shorten by a bar. This now leaves you with a gap one bar long and if you play it back that gap will just be silence - probably not what you want.
You can either select the next pattern and lengthen it to fill the space by grabbing the left arrow and dragging left, or if you don't want to use this pattern you can draw a new pattern in. Hit "W" on your keyboard. The arrow selection tool turns into a pencil tool. Draw in a new pattern, and then select which pattern you want this to be in exactly the same way you did before. Make sure you hit "Q" on your keyboard to re-select the selection tool first - you can't select with the pencil tool.
You can't layer one pattern on top of another - if you do, it will just play whichever is on top, not both at once. If you do want to layer drum sounds, just create a new ReDrum with its own lane.
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It's possible to just draw the patterns in without recording anything first, but it requires you to manually create a pattern lane, so it's probably easier just to record the pattern and then edit it.
If you are having problems with the pattern not changing when you expect it it's probably because you are clicking too late. It will only change to a new pattern at the end of the bar that is currently playing.
Also, there is a time-delay between what you are hearing and when Reason registers that you've clicked, and with the average consumer soundcard or onboard sound this could be up to around 200 milliseconds (.2 of a second).
This delay is called latency, and it's not Reason's fault. It is going to happen with any sequencer unless you have a soundcard with an ASIO driver (Windows) or Core Audio driver (Mac) (most consumer cards don't, at least on Windows - I don't know about Mac).
So you may think you are clicking early enough, but Reason doesn't get the message till later. If that's after the beginning of the next bar it won't change when you expect it to, so try clicking on the new pattern as soon as the preceding bar starts.
If your soundcard does have a Core Audio driver, make sure that it is selected in the Reason Preferences, which you'll find in the main Edit Menu. Click on Preferences, then on the top drop down box and select "Audio". It will show you what driver you are currently using in the "Audio Card Driver" drop down box. If Core Audio is available select it.
If it's not there you don't have it. Then your only option is to reduce the buffer size, but reducing this too far can cause sound drop-outs and other problems. Setting up audio can be a real pain unless you have a card that is designed for audio use - they aren't that expensive, under US$100 for something basic that will do everything you need.
Hope this helps. |
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buggs1a
Junior Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Sigh. I'm just not used to it. Maybe I'll end up liking this way.
Let me say how I see this and you tell me if I'm kind of understanding. If it's ok.
You make one pattern. Then you make more but each different. In the Korg you just play and each pattern plays in order. So you have to copy a pattern so it's more then one spot. But reason let's you create just one pattern each. Then you hit the record button and press what pattern you want and let it play. So instead of copying the same pattern over and over reason does it different.
Is this right? I can see this as a cool way. You only make one pattern for each sound whatever instead of copying the same over and over. However this causes problems. I don't know bow reason overcomes the timing mistakes we will make and length of song when we want it to end.
With patterns like in Korg and others it plays each pattern in order for as many patterns as there are. You know when it's done and how long. Reason makes you manually hit record then each pattern when you want it. This to me is not as good but is better in getting rid of copying a pattern over and over if I am understanding this at all. A possible and for me, problem is timing. With playing patterns in their order it works. Manually doesn't. You have to tap the pattern you want at the perfect time plus you have to know how the pattern sounds. Like which one is it. I don't see how reason could work well.
But if you can name patterns that's a good start. If you can select a pattern then place it in the space like you arrange them where you want them. Not using the record button. But as you said, draw it in? Is that right? So you make patterns and then can name them to recognize them and then just like take pattern 1 and place it at the far left. You can then just copy/paste to keep going to the right or drag it to extend it. Then add the next pattern after that. To me I think this would work much better then hitting the record button which does not sit well with me at all. I think it's kinda stupid having to hit a record button and the patterns at the perfect time. That's to me very stupid. Just my opinion.
I may not be understanding this or thinking about it from other angels.
I am grateful to all of you. |
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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean by:
| Quote: | | You make one pattern. Then you make more but each different. In the Korg you just play and each pattern plays in order. So you have to copy a pattern so it's more then one spot. But reason let's you create just one pattern each. Then you hit the record button and press what pattern you want and let it play. So instead of copying the same pattern over and over reason does it different. |
In Reason , just as in the iMS-20, you program however many patterns you want (up to a maximum of 16 in the iMS-20 & 32 in any one ReDrum instance in Reason). Then in either program you arrange the patterns however you like. They can be in any order, and you don't have to copy the pattern to another spot - you just specify which pattern should play and in what order.
Suppose you have created 3 patterns in the iMS-20 - we'll call them pattern 1, 2 & 3. You want pattern 1 to play for 3 bars, then pattern 2 for 1 bar, then pattern 1 for 3 bars, then pattern 3 for one bar, and you want it to loop continuously when you hit play.
So all up this is an 8 bar loop that looks like 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3. In the iMS-20 that is exactly how you would enter them into song in the Song/PTN screen: the row of white buttons would read 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, followed by a button that says "loop" so that the sequence would keep repeating.
In Reason it works exactly the same way, but it displays differently: you don't have buttons for the loops in the sequencer, you have coloured rectangles that appear as you record. If you are in bank A of the Redrum your patterns will be called A1, A2, & A3.
So to record the same sequence as the iMS-20, what you do is set the Redrum to pattern A1. Make sure that Snap is set to Bar (this is the default value), and that Loop is selected in the transport bar.
Now hit record in the transport bar. Pattern 1 will start recording; as the 3rd bar plays hit Pattern A2, and at the end of the 3rd bar Reason will change to Pattern A2 for the 4th bar. While the 4th bar is playing, hit A1, and Reason will change to it in the 5th bar. Continue on, and in the 7th bar hit A3, and Reason will change to it for the 8th and final bar. Then hit stop.
You may have to zoom in to see what you've recorded (horizontal zoom is controlled by the + & - magnifying glass icons that you can see in the bottom left corner of the image below; vertical zoom is controlled by the + & - magnifying glass icons at the right of the image).
If everything has gone according to plan, this is what you will see:
When you look at what you have recorded you should see a long rectangle called A1 that lasts for 3 bars, followed by a shorter rectangle that lasts for 1 bar called A2, then another 3 bar rectangle called A1, followed by another small rectangle called A3.
So, this is exactly the same result as the iMS-20, it just displays the information differently.
If you've made a mistake while recording you can edit it by clicking on the rectangle that is wrong to highlight it. There will be a little black triangle next to the "A1" that points down. Click on this triangle to see all the patterns available and select the one you want from the list.
This is all explained much better in the Reason Operation Manual. How to record patterns is on page 70, drawing patterns in by hand is on page 90, and so is editing them. For info on how to copy, resize or move pattern clips see the section called "Editing clips in arrange mode" on page 72-75.
If you really hate this way of doing things (I don't use it much at all) you don't necessarily have to record your patterns or draw them in by hand - you can dispense with pattern altogether and program your beat directly into the sequencer instead of programming them with the buttons on the ReDrum device itself, but that is more complicated.
BTW, yes you can name each pattern in Reason, but only after you've recorded it into the sequencer, not before. In Windows you right click on the pattern clip in the sequencer, select "Add labels to clips" from the drop-down menu, and then type in the name you want for that clip. You aren't actually naming the pattern, you are naming the clip that contains the pattern - if you record the same pattern again into a new clip you will have to name the new clip again.
I strongly recommend reading the "Getting Started" manual and then working through the Operations manual, especially the first 5 chapters and then the ReDrum chapter. If you still find it impossibly to understand then a book like Reason 5 Power is your best bet - it really explains everything very simply and practically, step by step. |
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buggs1a
Junior Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I was just saying what i thought and it turns out I got confused. Lol. I think inwas thinking of another software app and said it was the Korg. I got mixed up.
What I said about reason was just how i understood it based on just my own opinion or something since I hadn't looked into it yet in the app itself. Like baseless babble or something 
I tend to ask questions before reading manuals sometimes. Sorry for that. I'm just used to it.
I tried looking online for a reason 5 manual in PDF but didn't find anything. I want it on my iPod and iPad in iBooks so I can read it on the go etc. Also it'll be easier for me to go through it and use the software at the same time.
One thing I wish in Korg is how to get song sounds back to default after messing with them. I played with my reverb pattern and it's all different now. Instead of just reloading it from what I saved I wish there was a default button or something to go back to my original saved settings without having to reload it.
I also noticed not many bass drums. I don't know the name. The lower bassy sound drum. I tried messing with knobs to change the sound to something different and the sounds endud up not resembling anything like the bass drum sound thingy. |
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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The manuals should be in your install of Reason - on Windows they are in a folder called Documentation. On My PC the folder structure is C: Program Files (x86)/Propellerhead/Reason/ Documentation. It should be somewhere similar on your Mac. |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yep. I found them but can't get them to open in iBooks via drop box. Sucks.
I don't know if I'm missing something but I'm very disappointed with Korg not having enough and good drum sounds. The more I play with it the more disappointed I get. What it does have can't be changed to sound better. I move knobs and drum sounds don't sound like a drum. I dont get it. |
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outbackyak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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I think the drums sounds in the iMS-20 are very good, but of course they are typical synth drum sounds like you'd get from an analog drum machine like a Roland TR-808 or TR-909. If you want realistic acoustic drum sounds you would need to use a sample-based drum source, not a synthesised drum source like the iMS-20.
It's apples and oranges - you can get great sounds from the iMS-20, but they are never going to sound realistic, just as in the same way you can get a nice string sound from the iMS-20 synth but it doesn't (and never will) sound like a real violin. |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Yes they sound cool. Naaaa. I'm not looking for realistic live instrument drum sound. I was trying to see if I could change the kick is it? The bass drum. I just wanted to change it to something different. But no matter what I did the sound wasn't even close to the original nor a drum sound at all. I was trying to get a different sound but nothing even came close to a drum or the original.
Like when you select new session it gives you the first kick drum as drum 1. I wanted to change it so I could get different sounds. Nothing was even close. I got cool sound but not anything even close to the bass drum sound. I don't know if I'm missing something or doing it wrong.
Like it'd be nice to change it to be more of a hard hit then it is as default. Like a hard thud. Or it be nice to have it like hit and then have I end slowly going down in sound frequency and volume. Kinda lime you might hear on a rap song or something. Like a boooom ending with a lower freq maybe. Like a sustain or whatever it is that ends a note slower then instant.
I just wanted to see what kind of sounds I could get but never got anything that sounds like a drum. The bass part. Is that kick? I also want to get different higher pitched drum sound. Snare type sound is it? Not sure. Like you have a boom shee boom shee. Then the high hat is like in-between those.
I just want more variety is all. I was trying but couldn't figure it out. That's all. I'm trying to learn it little by little just messing around moving knobs to see how the sound changes.
I have a cool techno cd that some of the songs could be like they came from the korg or reason or something similar. Techno trax vol 1 and 2 or something. Made in Germany. There's some cool drum beats and some have a very hard hitting bass then the she's that's not the high hat. Just Thot it might be neat to see if I could come up with something kind of similar. |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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I updated my soundcloud.com/buggs1a
With a new pattern too. |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmm |
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buggs1a
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok. Hmmmmmmmmm. |
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