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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes, I grew up playing piano, but as keyboarder I have left the inner "C-picture" of a keyboard layout completely since many years.

First of all, I'm rather belonging to the one bass school: that means, normally a keyboarder in a band should not disturb the bass player (most of them really HATE that for good reasons), unless you consciously play a riff together, or have the bass solo over your bass line.

My actual bass player plays a fretless Fender Jazz bass (so no five string) most of the time, and I play anything from electric jazz over funk to rock.
Whenever I really take over for a Moog or other synth bass, I just use octave transpose for the few occasions.

In bands with guitar(s) you will often play in E, A, D etc. and use the upper d and e for soloing quite often, using aynthing from Rhodes to lead synth sounds. Especially bended synth leads can do a very nice job up there.

Of course any of us can transpose anytime. But IF I had to decide what to chose, I would clearly prefer playing E to E.
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Randelph
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, when I'm playing in a band, having the full range of bass notes is not as important. But when I'm playing solo or in a small group where I'm covering bass, it's pretty vital.

After years of playing semi-weighted boards, both 61 and 76 boards, I was stunned when I played a Steinway grand at a party- what a treat! Shortly after that I picked up a Nord Stage Classic, my first weighted action board. It's a joy to have that low A, no transpose buttons to fuss with, and the growl from the low end of the piano and eps is very satisfying! The top octave gets very little use, but yeah, bendy synth leads way up there are fun- but even then I rarely go beyond what a 61 note board offers on the top octave.

But going back to what I said earlier: what difference does it make what the lowest string of a bass player is? If you're playing bass on the keyboard you're playing bass, and it doesn't matter what key you're in, there are chords in most any given song that have notes below an e.
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randelph wrote:
what difference does it make what the lowest string of a bass player is? If you're playing bass on the keyboard you're playing bass, and it doesn't matter what key you're in, there are chords in most any given song that have notes below an e.

If you're playing left hand bass, and playing basically the bass line that is on the recording, for common 4-string bass, the lowest note you will need is E. But as a keyboard player, being able to go lower is often useful.
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
If your guitar player uses drop tuning, just go along with him by transposing like him.

Often the guitarist is not drop tuning, he is only dropping the one string, from E to D. If you transpose the whole keyboard down to get the D, you would have to play the entire song in a different key.
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
C to C is utterly stupid on a 73 keyboard from my view, stealing useful notes for soloing from the top for (most of the time) useless bass notes at the bottom. Does anyone of the C promoters play live in a band actually???

I play live all the time.

For keyboard oriented songs, so many of which are in C, the low C is very useful.

For organ playing, I prefer the high note be a C, so I can do the characteristic Hammond swipes up to the high C without having to worry about overshooting.

If you really want to solo higher than that, you can always transpose the keyboard. Odds are good that, when you're soloing that high, your left hand isn't doing much all the way down. Unless you're doing left hand bass.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but I see no reason to change my mind:
I need the upper notes MUCH more often than bass notes below the e.

So I'm glad to get a Kronos that works just as well as my Rhodes MkI for doing so, and kindly leave frequent bass transposing to all of you, only needing it casually Laughing


By the way, neither in rock/funk/r&b- nor in jazz-bands I see too many songs written in C. What are you referring to? Are you playing alone or in a band?
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Sorry, but I see no reason to change my mind:
I need the upper notes MUCH more often


I am not trying to change your mind about what is good for you. I am only explaining why other people can often find otherwise, to counter your assertion, "C to C is utterly stupid on a 73 keyboard."

jimknopf wrote:
By the way, neither in rock/funk/r&b- nor in jazz-bands I see too many songs written in C. What are you referring to?

A lot of stuff that is keyboard based is in C. Some examples: Let It Be, New York State of Mind, Imagine, Tiny Dancer, I Feel the Earth Move, Whiter Shade of Pale... think of artists who wrote a lot on keyboard, you'll probably find stuff in C.

jimknopf wrote:
Are you playing alone or in a band?

Both, but more often in a band.

Again, as a heavy organ player, I like a high C. As long as the low note goes to at *least* E, I'm fine, but I prefer to be able to go down to D (another popular pop key) or C. Eb is also very useful when working with brass.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no, if you quote me, quote me right:
"C to C is utterly stupid on a 73 keyboard from my view"(!).
And I explained why "from my view".

Concerning the prominence of C: of course songs in C do exist, and a few keyboard players like Billy Joel may even have a preference for the white keys. Wink All in all, most others, like Herbie Hanock, George Duke, Chick Corea, Stevie Wonder, Jordan Rudess, Keith Emerson, Billy Preston etc. etc. certainly haven't.
I just heavily doubt that the C is very prominent accross all popular band styles, even among keyboarders.

Just one example:
You name Let it Be. But in Beatles songs, by far most are NOT written in C.


I'm still glad that the Kronos has a range from E to E. Cool
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Scott
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
No, no, if you quote me, quote me right:
"C to C is utterly stupid on a 73 keyboard from my view"(!).
And I explained why "from my view".

Sorry, I interpreted "from my view" to mean "in my opinion" as opposed to "in my usage."

jimknopf wrote:
You name Let it Be. But in Beatles songs, by far most are NOT written in C.

True, and they did not write most of their music on keyboard, or perform it primarily on keyboard. But for songs that are written from a piano perspective, C is one of the more common keys.

jimknopf wrote:
I'm still glad that the Kronos has a range from E to E. Cool

I'm glad you're happy! It doesn't affect me, because I'm looking to get the 61 anyway. Smile
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