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guillex
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Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 206
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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you really think that a Rack Version, ONLY WITH THE SOUNDS, with a smaller screen, without sliders, and many other controllers, could cost just 400 dollars less?????
I don't..
Anyway, besides the money, I don't want to have the keys, I don't like them, and I don't need them, so even If you could be right about the money, less kilos, less size and 400 dollas less will be GOOD for me.
But I really think that could cost less...
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Current Gear: Nord Stage 2 sw 73 - Clavinet D6 - Kurzweil Artis
Past Gear: Korg Krome 61 -Hammond SK1 73 - Korg M3 61 Expanded Radias - Korg M50 73 - Korg N5EX - Korg N1R - Korg TR 76 - Korg TR 88
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think the price difference by removing the keys will not be that much, for controllers of course it also is a bit of money, but I think the most money is inside:
- the motherboard/cpu etc
- ssd
- display
- development/research costs.
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irtehyar
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 88
Location: South Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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If the ssd is a significant contributor to the cost, then it's only because a dinky 30g drive is hard to find these days without getting overcharged for rarity or out of production technology.  |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | - the motherboard/cpu etc
- ssd
- display |
This is not that big factor in the price. SSD which Kronos uses is an older generation Toshiba SSD, not as expensive as SSDs that are available today. Display is probably $100 when bought at large. MBO/CPU is about that price or less. |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes maybe the development cost contributes a lot ... and the making of the samples etc.
However, for hardware costs the same can be said for the controllers / keybed that is missing ... that also cannot be much, but is the only difference between a rack and a keyboard version.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose talking about a rack is philosophical
There is zero chance that Korg will do a Kronos rack. If there are no plans there is no chance. I recall reading there were no plans.
Its been said that rack version sales have become extremely small, over recent years, such as 50 units.
Its also been stated that the same 50 folks ask for a rack versions of workstations.
I liked the rack concept back in the '90's as I had an A50 midi controller. But that was 15-20 years ago.
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Kevin Nolan
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | I suppose talking about a rack is philosophical
There is zero chance that Korg will do a Kronos rack. If there are no plans there is no chance. I recall reading there were no plans.
Its been said that rack version sales have become extremely small, over recent years, such as 50 units.
Its also been stated that the same 50 folks ask for a rack versions of workstations.
I liked the rack concept back in the '90's as I had an A50 midi controller. But that was 15-20 years ago. |
Well, look at the number of hits on this thread - over 7,000. If that does not indicate at least a keen interest in a Kronos rack then I don't know what does. And if not a rack mountabel module, then some sort of desk top unit.
I believe a Kronos Rack would be the actual Game Changer. Even as it stands, the sheer synth power and number of libraries is incredibly attractive. From many different threads on different forums - it seems to me that there is no debate on the pure quality of Kronos and that the issues centre on either the hardware implementation issues, or cost.
But underneath it all, it seems to me that even doubters of Kronos would buy it if more attractively priced and packaged and a module could offer that. The arrival of Krons DID make a spalsh and I firmly believe there is a huge untapped market out there, right now, of people who want it but who are still not prepared to buy yet another keyboard, or prepared to pay over $2000 for hardware they otherwise believe they can cater for in cheaper software.
So if Korg were to make all of these libraries available through a hardware unit optimised for DAW environments, provided editor software and promoted it on the basis of the hardware latency and reliability - a bit like UAD do with their plugins+hardware - and really sold that advantage to the market - plus made it price attractive, I believe they'd sell like hot cakes.
Just look at Arturia with the minibrute. They have done their homework - the minibrute ticks so many boxes of what was being repeatedly demanded by synthesists and so it has becomes the hottest property in analogue synthesis today.
I believe Korg has a similar opportunity to offer a real alternative to the likes of NI Komplete with a Kronos Rack as a hardware synthesis companion to a DAW environment. As said, if implemented correctly, promoted wisely and priced attractively, I believe there are a huge number of potential buyers.
Kevin. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | GregC wrote: | I suppose talking about a rack is philosophical
There is zero chance that Korg will do a Kronos rack. If there are no plans there is no chance. I recall reading there were no plans.
Its been said that rack version sales have become extremely small, over recent years, such as 50 units.
Its also been stated that the same 50 folks ask for a rack versions of workstations.
I liked the rack concept back in the '90's as I had an A50 midi controller. But that was 15-20 years ago. |
Well, look at the number of hits on this thread - over 7,000. If that does not indicate at least a keen interest in a Kronos rack then I don't know what does. And if not a rack mountabel module, then some sort of desk top unit.
I believe a Kronos Rack would be the actual Game Changer. Even as it stands, the sheer synth power and number of libraries is incredibly attractive. From many different threads on different forums - it seems to me that there is no debate on the pure quality of Kronos and that the issues centre on either the hardware implementation issues, or cost.
But underneath it all, it seems to me that even doubters of Kronos would buy it if more attractively priced and packaged and a module could offer that. The arrival of Krons DID make a spalsh and I firmly believe there is a huge untapped market out there, right now, of people who want it but who are still not prepared to buy yet another keyboard, or prepared to pay over $2000 for hardware they otherwise believe they can cater for in cheaper software.
So if Korg were to make all of these libraries available through a hardware unit optimised for DAW environments, provided editor software and promoted it on the basis of the hardware latency and reliability - a bit like UAD do with their plugins+hardware - and really sold that advantage to the market - plus made it price attractive, I believe they'd sell like hot cakes.
Just look at Arturia with the minibrute. They have done their homework - the minibrute ticks so many boxes of what was being repeatedly demanded by synthesists and so it has becomes the hottest property in analogue synthesis today.
I believe Korg has a similar opportunity to offer a real alternative to the likes of NI Komplete with a Kronos Rack as a hardware synthesis companion to a DAW environment. As said, if implemented correctly, promoted wisely and priced attractively, I believe there are a huge number of potential buyers.
Kevin. |
why sure. there is potential in the bottom end, as Casio and Minibrute seem to be doing at $500.
And page views are fine for ad revenue , for example, but manufacturers play for big margins, as you likely recall. IOW, margins rule .
If Korg ever does something for $500, it won't sonically look much like the Kronos we see today.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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Kevin Nolan
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Greg -
I feel I have made some objective and valid points here and that for some reason your fighting the idea of a Kronos rack.
Who said anything about this being $500? UAD Hardware+Plugins is not cheap - nor is the minibrute a 'cheap' item despite its low cost. It is so coveted because it is such a high quality item at a low cost - and not being a cheap and cheerful sub-standard item which you seem to be suggesting a Kronos rack would be.
I'm talking about a different paradigm - a desirable, powerful, purposeful implementation of OASYS/Kronos technology for DAW and Project studios that endorse high quality, flexibility and low latency. That model works for UAD and many others, why not for the world of OASYS / Kronos.
And remember - it is not just the formidable synth engines, pianos and accumulating libraries that would be mouth watering - there is the hugely capable effects engine as well as Karma to factor in.
I'm not saying this is ever going to happen and Korg may have legitimate reasons why this may not sell but I do not believe your generalised dismissal is a basis for rejection.
I'd buy one in the blink of an eye - it would, at this stage, be hugely more attractive than the Kronos keyboard irrespective of how many keys.
And it has to be said irrespective of the deniers on this forum: Kronos is plagued with hardware issues in its current implementation. I read dozens of posts on many, many forums where it is already well know – perhaps largely from this forum – that Kronos is a risk because of its cheap hardware. I firmly believe that has impacted significantly on both Kronos sales and its reputation.
Kronos is so superior in audio capability that it should have unequivocally blown Motif, Nord and Kurzweil out of the market but it didn’t and that’s surely largely because of the issues that have plagued the instrument in 73 and 88 note versions. You may deny it, but the problems with Kronos have made many (including myself) recoil from purchasing one. I’m still waiting to sense a general thumbs up on newer releases but there seems to be no sign of that to date.
Hence, a rack version could even relaunch it - something that is needed in my opinion.
And while I'm on a little rant - in my opinion the decision of Korg to endores Karo libraries is also a concern for th future reputation of Kronos. Karo abandoned OASYS; while manyof their libraries are dubious - there are flaws in some of their piano libraries for example. I only hope Karo are prepared to support Kronos for the long term and have also repaired the flaws in the libaries I mention (I own all of Karo's Piano libraries and while some like the Bosendorfer are excellent, others are simply unusable).
Overall, I believe that Kronos is not being mnaged very well to date; and the release of something like a rack would, in my opinion, do the brand no harm whatsoever.
Kevin. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | Greg -
I feel I have made some objective and valid points here and that for some reason your fighting the idea of a Kronos rack.
Who said anything about this being $500? UAD Hardware+Plugins is not cheap - nor is the minibrute a 'cheap' item despite its low cost. It is so coveted because it is such a high quality item at a low cost - and not being a cheap and cheerful sub-standard item which you seem to be suggesting a Kronos rack would be.
I'm talking about a different paradigm - a desirable, powerful, purposeful implementation of OASYS/Kronos technology for DAW and Project studios that endorse high quality, flexibility and low latency. That model works for UAD and many others, why not for the world of OASYS / Kronos.
And remember - it is not just the formidable synth engines, pianos and accumulating libraries that would be mouth watering - there is the hugely capable effects engine as well as Karma to factor in.
I'm not saying this is ever going to happen and Korg may have legitimate reasons why this may not sell but I do not believe your generalised dismissal is a basis for rejection.
I'd buy one in the blink of an eye - it would, at this stage, be hugely more attractive than the Kronos keyboard irrespective of how many keys.
And it has to be said irrespective of the deniers on this forum: Kronos is plagued with hardware issues in its current implementation. I read dozens of posts on many, many forums where it is already well know – perhaps largely from this forum – that Kronos is a risk because of its cheap hardware. I firmly believe that has impacted significantly on both Kronos sales and its reputation.
Kronos is so superior in audio capability that it should have unequivocally blown Motif, Nord and Kurzweil out of the market but it didn’t and that’s surely largely because of the issues that have plagued the instrument in 73 and 88 note versions. You may deny it, but the problems with Kronos have made many (including myself) recoil from purchasing one. I’m still waiting to sense a general thumbs up on newer releases but there seems to be no sign of that to date.
Hence, a rack version could even relaunch it - something that is needed in my opinion.
And while I'm on a little rant - in my opinion the decision of Korg to endores Karo libraries is also a concern for th future reputation of Kronos. Karo abandoned OASYS; while manyof their libraries are dubious - there are flaws in some of their piano libraries for example. I only hope Karo are prepared to support Kronos for the long term and have also repaired the flaws in the libaries I mention (I own all of Karo's Piano libraries and while some like the Bosendorfer are excellent, others are simply unusable).
Overall, I believe that Kronos is not being mnaged very well to date; and the release of something like a rack would, in my opinion, do the brand no harm whatsoever.
Kevin. |
hey kevin, you are welcome to spec out a design and the cost components
of a Kronos rack. Since i read its not part of any design plans.
If you provide a proof of concept design + cost, that might help Korg get convinced of its worthiness. it typically takes 2 years to get a new product
into street retail/distribution.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'll take 2 of these please...
Regards
Sharp.
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guillex
Full Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | I'll take 2 of these please...
Regards
Sharp. |
wooooooow! Congratulations, nice work, nice idea!
_________________
Current Gear: Nord Stage 2 sw 73 - Clavinet D6 - Kurzweil Artis
Past Gear: Korg Krome 61 -Hammond SK1 73 - Korg M3 61 Expanded Radias - Korg M50 73 - Korg N5EX - Korg N1R - Korg TR 76 - Korg TR 88
http://guilleportogarcia.com |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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My Photoshop work is not as sophisticated as McHale's, but I'd appreciate a rack version of the Kronos:
| EXer wrote: | My wish : a rackmount Kronos, with real time controllers and which can be fully edited from its own panel, like the Triton Rack or the Yamaha EX5R
_____ ___  .
(not a rack that cannot be edited without a software like the TR-Rack or the Motif Rack).
Even better, with the same touch screen as the keyboard, like Roland did with their V-Synth XT:
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A rackmount Kronos would have several advantages:
¤ every musician could chose a master keyboard with the action they prefer.
¤ when used intensely on stage, a keyboard wears out much more than the synth itself ; a master KB is easier to exchange than a built-in KB
¤ no accumulation of useless keyboards in the studio when you have a lot of gear and limited space
¤ no need to pay for a KB when you already have a good master KB
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Bruce Lychee
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Slim rack unit with a wireless iPad editor would be pretty amazing.
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Roland Jupiter 80
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Lychee wrote: | | Slim rack unit with a wireless iPad editor would be pretty amazing. |
And in 2 years, when the iPad has become obsolete, your rack will be useless.
No, a rack MUST be a SELF CONTAINED instrument, otherwise it's not worth more than a plug-in. |
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