Korg Forums

[jimknopf]

huuh???

My only explanation for the ongoing existence of this thread is the boring time until the Kronos is released.

Now let's go on discussing the necessity of 10000 velocoties.
And of course a new midi system is urgent at least for this very serious reason.

We boldly go where no clumpsy thumb has gone before, do we?

[ozy]

[Akos Janca]

[peter_schwartz]

[ozy]

[peter_schwartz]

Don't worry, I've learned my lesson. If I introduce facts into the conversation then...

• the entire thread comes to a screeching halt, or...
• I'm told I'm wrong, the facts are glossed over completely (other than to dispute them) and then the conversation continues
• the importance of the need for > 127 velocity steps are likened to some kind of really serious disease

It's that last part that really gets to me, but I have to let it go. Just... let... go... MmmmmmPH! So don't worry, next time a discussion comes up where facts might actually be of benefit, I'll just shut up and agree with everyone. But please know in advance that it will be a false front, and that I'll be crying inside.

[jemkeys25]

hey jimknopf,
your just upset cause you didn't think of this topic, maybe cause your just not that intuitive, or you might figure out where keyboards need advancing.

[Scott]

edit:

dupe, sorry

but I'll keep the part that was picked up on...

---

a common reference is that 10x as much amplification results in something subjectively twice as loud... point remains, I don't know how people subjectively determine twice as loud...

[Kayemef]

Holy crap, just took a few days off from the forums and wham, this topic gets 5 more pages !

I was looking for keybeds that feature multiple optical sensors, and apart form the VAX77, I found only 1 company who makes them.

http://www.midi9.com/products.htm

It's some kind of midi recording strip that goes under the keybed of accoustic pianos. Anyone aware if other keybeds on synths have this sort of tech, or maybe ways do DIY it on a standard MIDI controller ?

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, but even after reading all the posts on velocity curves, MIDI resolution, I still believe that improvements in the not-so-official field of "accurate quantization of analog phenomenae and/or non-discrete continuous stuff" must start by taking into consideration the actual tools and sensors that collect the data.

In other words, better keybeds and better sensors, then towards a better "understanding" of the player's playing intentions from a software's point of view.

It's sad that even though its possible and quite easy to attain very low midi velocities (for pianissimos), it's kinda hard to do when some notes need to be played very fast. As far as most keyboards go, fast = higher midi = louder. I do happen to think that a set of 127 values is enough to correctly quantize a player's dynamics, problem is that I can't manage to output values lower than 30 or 40 when playing at higher BPMs.

[ozy]

[Scott]

[ozy]

[Scott]

[peter_schwartz]

To understand what 3dB and 10x and all of the other numbers associated with sound pressure levels are about you just have to do some reading up on the matter. The 10x bit has to do with the logarithmic nature of dB measurements, so it's not wrong. Use Google, get a good book on acoustics... none of it is a mystery. Just takes a little effort.

You can even experiment by yourself and understand it better. Do you have a DAW? If so, take a stereo mix of something ambient or something that doesn't have a lot of dynamics and put it on two stereo tracks. Mute track 2 for a minute. Set your output to 0dBfs. Now set track 1's level so that you're getting a peak of minus 3dBfs as seen on the output meter (not the track's meter) at some point in the song. Now set track 2's level to be the same as track 1, rewind a bit, and play back that point where your output peaked at -3dBfs previously. Voila, your output will peak at 0dBfs.

So there's a very easy experiment you can do at home to ascertain what "twice as loud" is not only from a digital levels point of view (dBfs) but also a purely listening point of view (dB's).

[ozy]

AAAAAGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some BASIC knowledge of how science works, PLEASE!!!!

Human subjective perception cannot be measured from "WITHIN"!

So, when somebody says "I feel double the pressure",

it means

"I feel the sensation that is usually associated with the doubling of the pressure"!!!!

AAAAGHHHH!!!!!!

aaaaaghhhhhh!!!!!! HELP ME!!!!!

When somebody doubles the weight on your shoulder, the difference you perceive is defined "DOUBLE"!!!

Because NOTHING else can be measured!

The internal, subjective response to the doubling of the weight CANNOT be measured!

you said "how do I know that when I feel double it's realy double the weight?". Because that's how "double" is defined!

HOW THE FRIGGING ELSE COULD YOU MEASURE A HUMAN SENSATION BEING "DOUBLE" OR "TREBLE"?!?!?.

Telepathy?!? WHAT ?!?!?

How would you quantify a sensation?

Can you say that you body is working "twice as much" without an ergometer (=external weight measure)?

And could you learn measuring your effort before repeating several time a comparison between your perception and the ergometer result?

Did you stop to think of that before answering in such a pompous and sneering fake-intellectual way?!?

Do you THINK before posting?

Or is this all joke? Anybody posting any bullshit under the pretense of "scientifical" language?

When exactly did our schools go down the drain?!?

"I feel double the heat", "I feeble double the pain", "I feel double the arousal": how do you measure that?

When the external event has a measurable scale (e.g.: noise, which can be translated into measurable pressure), you call the different sensations "double", "treble" BASED ON THE EXTERNAL OBJECTIVE SCALE of the external event!

Of course it's an average response!

When you double the pressure, a DEAF's sensation doesn't "double".