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Convince me NOT to get a Kronos
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realtrance



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Convince me NOT to get a Kronos Reply with quote

Hi All,

This is just for fun -- I really neither want to spend money nor the time to get into a new keyboard right now (well, more the former than the latter), but it's an interesting thought exercise.

My situation: I have a filled ol' Roland XP-80 I've had for over a decade (well, since it came out, really) -- have the Vintage, World, Piano and Session SRJV cards in it, LOVE the whole soundset, am very familiar with the samples and patches, have had the time to learn ins and outs with the synth architecture, really, I remain as delighted with this synth as I was when I first got it. Can even replace the little CR-2032 inside when I need to, and the keybed's still just fine.

The Kronos is a couple of generations new, has the piano sampleset I've always dreamed about to fill my traditional pianistic desires, has a built-in CX-3, plus Karma, plus AL-1, well you know all the rest; it really is extremely attractive, more than any workstation I've been tempted by since 1997 (the Fantom in its final incarnation ALMOST except it just didn't have the physical ruggedness I've gotten used to with my XP-80, plus if it had been an XV-5080 full-stop with a keybed I would've been happy, but it wasn't quite that, it catered more to a popular techno dance crowd when it came out).

My dilemma is that I've just grown attached to the familiar. The internet is full of people trading keyboards up and down as if they were trinkets; that's not my way.

Do I forego the familiarity and intimacy built from years of experience with my instrument, and its architecture? Or stick with it? I'm inclined to the latter, as tempting as Kronos is.

Among other things, I love the musical work Eric Persing did during that period, and as non-hardcore as it may sound, I relish a lot of the patches in my XP-80 for their sound as much as anything else. I don't relish its pre-USB/S/PDIF digital I/O, is the only thing, but that's not really a big deal for me either.

Any encouragements/discouragements?

Thanks,

rt
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thekeymaster
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 367
Location: Stoke-On-Trent,England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Rt.

I'm sorry mate I can't convince you NOT to get a Kronos.Through my many years of playing I have owned an XP80,I loved that workstation,it did me proud and as you say if you are familiar with it then why change.If you feel happy with what you have stay with it if it meets your needs and you know how to get the best out of it.

The reason why I can't convince you though is that we talking leagues apart in quality and depth. An instrument is only as good as it's owner.If you feel you don't have the inclination to learn a new instrument then that's the only argument I can give you for not getting a Kronos.

Everything else points to a new beginning, we are talking the difference between a push bike and a motorcycle.
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realtrance



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thekeymaster,

Thanks for your reply. I could easily see spending the time sunk into learning a new instrument, the technicalities and all the rest and yes, I'm sure it would be rewarding, in the long run. It's not a lack of inclination there; I've done that over the years, with other synths.

It's just.... at the end of that road, most of the time, the value to me, ultimately, as a musician, is, in terms of time and money spent, not always worth it. I haven't found my music-making improving as a result of such efforts, if anything, the contrary is the case. It's all too easy to diffuse one's talents in such a way.

It sounds silly but I look at the sampled piano _and_ CX-3 in Kronos and honestly, I don't think I'm enough of a master to warrant having both of those, at such high quality! Shocked -- for someone whose main axe is a piano, or a B3, I can see them slavering over this as a live instrument, just for the sheer soloing quality they'll get, and the experience of this as a suitable, portable replacement for either of the above. For me... it's overkill, is all. I think ditto with the rest of it. For now, at least.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, and the amusing metaphorical analogue, at the end. The XP-80's still a pretty complicated pushbike, though, I have to say! Although a lot of its architecture was built around dealing with the limitations of sample size and I/O present at the time it debuted, also something to think about.
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TheLeadingSaw



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the price factor?
If you buy a new workstation after 14 years - I believe an adult can afford that once a while (While = 14 years Very Happy).
The time factor?
Learning a new machine, especially this kind of heavy duty machine seems to be pretty fun. At least to me. Kronos (Or XF8/GCool is about 3 generations from your last workstation, making it even more fun for you.
Think about it. The M3/OASYS users around here aren't going to see and mild changes in Kronos, but for you it's like new features collected in more than a decade!!

You don't have to spend 5 hours everyday to learn a new machine. If your main use will be the piano I bet you could master the SGX-1 engine in like... A week.

-G-
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if it is overkill (and it clearly will be for many players) it's a chance to have the best instrument possible to fail on.

I'd rather strive to learn piano on a Bosendorfer than be discouraged from ever learning because I was chained to a Playskool toy.

I love DX sounds - have the 3000 bank archive. I can't see NOT getting the Kronos because I'd have to wade through all those FM voices in order to feel I'd gotten my money's worth.

Most of us will not come remotely close to touching the K's full potential, but its great to know that it's there if we want to reach for it..

And as someone said [gaaakk!! Am I quoting Hanna Montanna?!?] "It's the climb..."

BB
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Zeroesque
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

realtrance wrote:
It sounds silly but I look at the sampled piano _and_ CX-3 in Kronos and honestly, I don't think I'm enough of a master to warrant having both of those, at such high quality! Shocked -- for someone whose main axe is a piano, or a B3, I can see them slavering over this as a live instrument, just for the sheer soloing quality they'll get, and the experience of this as a suitable, portable replacement for either of the above. For me... it's overkill, is all. I think ditto with the rest of it. For now, at least.

For me, the sound is so hugely important in every aspect of music creation...it's literally half of the equation. The notes themselves (the playing) are the other half.

If I hold down a chord on the B3 sound, and the feeling is just not there, I probably won't even compose a tune on it. Next patch. Deal with it for live use. However, when you hit a note, chord or riff and the pure tone is making you say, "Hell, yeah!" and the hairs on the back of your neck are standing up, then you've got something. You end up playing that thing for hours, having the time of your life, playing new lines, writing new material. Do that in a band setting, crank it up and everyone is totally getting off on it, and it's never sounded better. That's where I'm at w/ the Kronos. The sound enables the fun.
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thekeymaster
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries RT.

One thing to consider would be inspiration? A board like Kronos will inspire you to learn,even if it's small steps as Mr Saw so rightly puts it,one engine at a time.

As an OASYS owner,trust me when I say you will be inspired if you get chance to demo a Kronos.

Like I said, I can't convince you NOT to buy one hehehehe Laughing
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mrk
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy... did anyone read the subject here? Stop being offtopic!! Wink

Ok - back on topic: WTF!? Of course you don't want a Kronos. I mean c'mon! AL-1, MOD-7, STR-1, MS20.. ? All those things are sticking around since the OASYS! I mean that technology is sooo stone-old meanwhile, you should wonder why they are still integrating it at all!

In the demo RichF said "let's look forward: AL-1 - analog synth how it would be done today" - today? It was done 2006! This thing is almost 7 (in words: SEVEN) years old. In computer terms this is more than 3 times Moore's law!

Ok, your board is 14yrs, but that's just twice as much as what they are trying to sell to you today - so not that big of a difference.





So? Convinced?? ..no? .. yeah.. thought so, damnit.... Wink
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TheLeadingSaw



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrk wrote:
Boy... did anyone read the subject here? Stop being offtopic!! Wink

Ok - back on topic: WTF!? Of course you don't want a Kronos. I mean c'mon! AL-1, MOD-7, STR-1, MS20.. ? All those things are sticking around since the OASYS! I mean that technology is sooo stone-old meanwhile, you should wonder why they are still integrating it at all!

In the demo RichF said "let's look forward: AL-1 - analog synth how it would be done today" - today? It was done 2006! This thing is almost 7 (in words: SEVEN) years old. In computer terms this is more than 3 times Moore's law!

Ok, your board is 14yrs, but that's just twice as much as what they are trying to sell to you today - so not that big of a difference.





So? Convinced?? ..no? .. yeah.. thought so, damnit.... Wink


Dosen't matter if it's 2006 or 2056.
If you don't have a Korg instrument that has AL-1 if you buy a Kronos you now have one. And for him it'll be just like if it was invented a week ago.
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EnjoyRC
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't buy a Kronos.

Did that work? Can't be any more clear about it.
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thekeymaster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ok ok.... here we go Laughing

Reasons not to buy......as Mrk so rightly put it

1. Old technology......has been out 6 years
2. Kronos.....not really a good name ( lame excuse not to buy but I'm doing my best here)
3. It's grey
4. Will cost you money,which in these hard cash strapped times is never a good thing.
5. Hardware is a little lightweight (great for gigging though ....dam need negatives !!!! Mad )
6. With so much on offer you may never see your loved ones again ,you may become a sad and lonely figure destined to drown in your own delusional state that there is nothing but Kronos.
7. Korg are evil ( or some would have you think they are)
8. Disgruntled OASYS owners could attack you if they see you in public with Kronos
9. You can do more with a computer
10. Your XP-80 will feel rejected leading to it suddenly becoming unusable and miraculously deciding to play up on you and ultimately die !!!!!! Evil or Very Mad

I'll try and think of some more...
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mrk
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now we're talking! ^^

11. Did you see the iPad-App iMS20?? Do you really want to buy a fat workstation doing stuff that even a 0,8kg iPad can do? So only 8 synth engines left for Kronos. So just wait for the next 8 Apps from Korg and your iPad is as powerful as a Kronos. -- Ok even more powerful - at least as long as your Kronos can't check your eMails!
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thekeymaster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesss the Apple i-Krap!!!!!!!!!..... hahahahahahahahaha sort of i-Pad meets Kronos.

Now there, that's a dam fine reason not to buy a Kronos. Laughing
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realtrance



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy That's more the spirit! <g>

Honestly, 4. and 6. above are really the main constraints for me at the moment, plus I really do think I'd dump a load of subsequent stuff the Kronos would replace (ok I admit, sheepishly: I have a Karma and Radias rack-version..... neither used anywhere near as much as they should be! and I even have the MOSS board in the former.....).

At another level, though, I've had access in one way or another to various sampled pianos, both keyboard-based and software-based, and... they always come out disappointing. I'd _hate_ to be disappointed yet again with another attempt to simulate a real, top-flight grand piano. I crawl sadly back to my simple XP-80's pianos and just say, eh... good enough for what I do with it, I'll never have the money, nor room, for a Bechstein, OH well..... -- but I've listened carefully to at least what's publicly available on Kronos and it is indeed almost the kind of thing I feel like I could live for the rest of my life with as a substitute. It's that good. You know, of course, that living with it for awhile, if you're a real pianist, you'd find limitations eventually. Yes? No?

Anyways, it's good to know it's out there, or will be, soon.

Glad to see this NOT turn into a bashing/competition thread; THANK YOU. My faith in the internet is restored. Very Happy
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Bachus
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Convince me NOT to get a Kronos Reply with quote

realtrance wrote:
Hi All,

This is just for fun -- I really neither want to spend money nor the time to get into a new keyboard right now (well, more the former than the latter), but it's an interesting thought exercise.

My situation: I have a filled ol' Roland XP-80 I've had for over a decade (well, since it came out, really) -- have the Vintage, World, Piano and Session SRJV cards in it, LOVE the whole soundset, am very familiar with the samples and patches, have had the time to learn ins and outs with the synth architecture, really, I remain as delighted with this synth as I was when I first got it. Can even replace the little CR-2032 inside when I need to, and the keybed's still just fine.

The Kronos is a couple of generations new, has the piano sampleset I've always dreamed about to fill my traditional pianistic desires, has a built-in CX-3, plus Karma, plus AL-1, well you know all the rest; it really is extremely attractive, more than any workstation I've been tempted by since 1997 (the Fantom in its final incarnation ALMOST except it just didn't have the physical ruggedness I've gotten used to with my XP-80, plus if it had been an XV-5080 full-stop with a keybed I would've been happy, but it wasn't quite that, it catered more to a popular techno dance crowd when it came out).

My dilemma is that I've just grown attached to the familiar. The internet is full of people trading keyboards up and down as if they were trinkets; that's not my way.

Do I forego the familiarity and intimacy built from years of experience with my instrument, and its architecture? Or stick with it? I'm inclined to the latter, as tempting as Kronos is.

Among other things, I love the musical work Eric Persing did during that period, and as non-hardcore as it may sound, I relish a lot of the patches in my XP-80 for their sound as much as anything else. I don't relish its pre-USB/S/PDIF digital I/O, is the only thing, but that's not really a big deal for me either.

Any encouragements/discouragements?

Thanks,

rt


If you can spend $3000 on a Kronos, you can also spend $400 on a XV-5080 rack (seen them on ebay for much less) and put in your JV-80 cards.

That way you have the best of both worlds...
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