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Articulation
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely! I can play keyboard better than I can play guitar, so it comes pretty useful to me. Laughing


On the other hand I could always hire you to play stuff for me. Razz Cool
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xmlguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Articulation is basically physical instrument modeling, except instead of using pure algorithms to simulate the wave path, additional sampling is used for the articulations. Yamaha started on this path with their Megavoice articulations, which were usable only under midi control, then they started adding behavior programming to dynamically call the articulations as you play in certain ways (SuperArticulation and eXpanded Articulation). I think that this Sample Articulation Modeling is the main reason why Yamaha abandoned the older physical modeling technique. They could get equally good articulations with less processing overhead. As the Mind Control video shows, the trick is to be able to define how the articulations are controlled in a natural manner for keyboardist to use. On the Motif XS, the AF1 and AF2 buttons are used for calling articulations. A pedal can be used for a guitar body thump, and the synth engine can automatically generate string "finger noise" between phrases.

Yamaha also has special software that can automatically process existing GM midi files to automatically add articulations appropriate for the instruments you select for each track, using the Megavoice articulations.


Last edited by xmlguy on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Timo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Mind Control really does look seriously phenomenal. Knocks velocity switching into a cocked hat.
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kontakt scripting can go pretty deep in editing... I think Korg should allow some of scripting such the Mind Control of Orange Tree, or even better, check with NI to release Kontakt as an EXi...

It would open the Kronos to so much great Kontakt sound libraries that include very realistic sounds. Think about Strawberry Guitar from Orange Tree, Acoustic Legends Guitars from Vir2, Symphobia from ProjectSAM, LA Scoring Strings from Audiobro, etc...

With VMT & Streaming, it's not anymore a matter or problem of size now Smile

Phil
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LASS would be impossible on a 1.6 GHz Atom CPU... in fact most of real-world VSTs aren't sufficiently optimized to run on such a platform. Kontakt especially.
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ozy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
Definitely! I can play keyboard better than I can play guitar, so it comes pretty useful to me


On the same line of thought:

I can play ball better than I play both guitar and keyboards,

so I should probably ask DeMarini to add pianos and lespauls to their bats.

I am tired of knock... knock... knock... Why not "twang" and "gnewww"? I feel entitled to it.


On a more serious tone:

40 years after the first COMMERCIAL BOOM of synthesizers, there still is people who complain that piano is a "real instruments with its own voice", while electronic keyboards "just emulate other instruments" [I read one on a forum a few days ago, a jazz piano player. No, not Keith Jarret Rolling Eyes ]

This is a stupid preconceived notion,

but no day goes by without some keyboard player reinforcing the preconceived notion.

Synhts are NOT for "people who can't play other instruments"!

Synths are for people who CAN play synths!!! Evil or Very Mad
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X-Trade
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Location: Leeds, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ozy wrote:
but no day goes by without some keyboard player reinforcing the preconceived notion.

Synhts are NOT for "people who can't play other instruments"!

Synths are for people who CAN play synths!!! Evil or Very Mad


+1
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
LASS would be impossible on a 1.6 GHz Atom CPU... in fact most of real-world VSTs aren't sufficiently optimized to run on such a platform. Kontakt especially.


It's not that much an issue of sample library, but more an issue of sample player not optimized... When we see what Korg do with the HD-1, SGX-1, MS20 and all other synthesis, I have no doubt they could come up with something great...

Of course, after more memory and user sample streaming, Kontakt libraries are my third wish/hope... However, if for any reason, they can't make it happen, they can still take inspiration about "scripting" stuff such Mind Control and so on, to include it on the HD-1 or HD-2... There's also a lot of "Arpegiators" stuff in Kontakt that could be done by arpegiator (such AL-1) or even Karma (mostly if they do allow us to edit our own pattern... wish/hope #4 Smile ).

My 2 cents,
Phil
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sani
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmlguy wrote:
Advanced articulations are more than key-off. There's special behavior programmed and function buttons to control the articulations. For example, Superarticulation can do a guitar slide when you hammer a key three or four notes up from a current note, but not when you hammer six notes up. Brass falls, shakes, trills, and other articulations can be added to the last note of a phrase using function buttons, as another example.


That's certainly a cool thing, but honestly, to me it seems that those two function buttons are nothing more than just another two physical controllers.
I can trigger brass falls, shakes, trills with velocity switching, or using the two SW buttons or even with a dedicated key zone in a combination with those dedicated articulation samples.
There is also a strings patch on the Kronos (and even on the M3) where you get a pizzicato sound by pressing a SW button.
It's maybe not programmed out from factory to be triggered by some buttons, but it can certainly be done.
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xmlguy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sani wrote:
xmlguy wrote:
Advanced articulations are more than key-off. There's special behavior programmed and function buttons to control the articulations. For example, Superarticulation can do a guitar slide when you hammer a key three or four notes up from a current note, but not when you hammer six notes up. Brass falls, shakes, trills, and other articulations can be added to the last note of a phrase using function buttons, as another example.


That's certainly a cool thing, but honestly, to me it seems that those two function buttons are nothing more than just another two physical controllers.
I can trigger brass falls, shakes, trills with velocity switching, or using the two SW buttons or even with a dedicated key zone in a combination with those dedicated articulation samples.
There is also a strings patch on the Kronos (and even on the M3) where you get a pizzicato sound by pressing a SW button.
It's maybe not programmed out from factory to be triggered by some buttons, but it can certainly be done.


The problem is not that the KRONOS hardware can't do advanced articulations, it's that the software has to be designed to perform the articulations in a natural way for keyboardists. Mapping articulations to different keys is NOT a natural way to do it. Articulations should be able to be triggered on the normal notes that you're playing, while you're playing them. Mapping an articulation to a different key doesn't work the same. The AF buttons work such that you can call a trumpet fall at the end of the note in real-time, or a guitar slide by hitting the button before hitting the note. It's not just a matter of changing all the keys to a different multisample, as with the pizzicato example you described.
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Timo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this stuff is simply inspired. I would really, really, really, like to see logical conditional/boolean articulations like Mind Control incorporated. It increases the sound design possibilities and realism exponentially.
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