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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ozy wrote: | tc helicon voicelive 2 For me it's overkill though: for choir effects, and for layering to a vocoder when I need quasi-choir effects, I just use a cheap digitech midi vocalist: for 100 bucks it will take you very, very far. Of course if you need effects, eq, compressor, etc in a box, the live2 is definitely better (at 6 times the price  ). |
I'm a solo keyboardist just starting to get into singing and interested in adding voice special effects and harmonizer. I have the opportunity to get a TC VL-2 for $395 right now but it's missing the CD required for updating to latest software versions. I'm basically starting to go in a new direction with experimenting with harmonizing and generating spacey voice processed effects. Unfortunately TC Helicon doesn't have live support, everything is by FAQ and email. |
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ozy
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, voicelive2 is hardware, you legitimately bought a used one (you didn't clone it right? He he...) and the product is barely one year old - then almost certainly under warranty:
So you are entitled to a copy of any software needed to make it run properly.
write TC and ask them.
395 us$ is a nice buy. It went for 800 eur in Italy, new. |
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Rosen Sound
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I always loved the vocoder on the radias/r3 if you know what youre doing.
_________________
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
And my band: Sirion.us.com |
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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| robbinhood wrote: | | I always loved the vocoder on the radias/r3 if you know what youre doing. |
If I can access all the same Radias options on the Kronos that will be cool as I'm going for some other worldly effects (aside from nice realistic harmonizer stuff which I'll get from separate hardware like the TC Helicon or Roland VP-7. I assume, that getting cool stuff out of the Kronos vocoder route will all be by trial and error. |
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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ozy"]Hey, voicelive2 is hardware, you legitimately bought a used one (you didn't clone it right? He he...) and the product is barely one year old - then almost certainly under warranty:
How user friendly, if at all, would you say the TC VL2 was when you tried it? Is it fairly intuitive or a pain to go through a ton of menus and submenus? I don't even need to edit the sounds as there is a ton of presets. Do you think I can control the VL2 solely via my keyboard if I want or does it always have to have my human voice input? The Roland VP-7 demos show it being used both ways, chorus harmonizing to the human singer and chorus backing to just a keyboard playing, either with the chorus alone or serving as an additional patch to whatever the keyboard is playing, like lead piano notes. I'm still waiting for an answer from TC tech support. I still haven't made my final decision up between the two VPs but will likely make my mind up next week based on answers to these questions. |
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ozy
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hal2001 wrote: | | How user friendly, if at all, would you say the TC VL2 was when you tried it? Is it fairly intuitive or a pain to go through a ton of menus and submenus? |
On a scale from 0 to 10 [0 being a analogue monosynth, 10 being the effects submenu on a complex workstation], I’d say 4.
Let me put something else straight:
It’s simple, but not necessarily easy.
If you want just harmonies, it takes 5 minutes to set it and run.
If you want to use compressor and eq [which are very good], in way well-suited for voice, you need to work on it. It’s not about thousands of submenus, it’s about fine tuning.
I got an engineer doing the job for me. I know it took time.
| Quote: | | Do you think I can control the VL2 solely via my keyboard if I want or does it always have to have my human voice input? The Roland VP-7 demos |
No no no, hold on.
The voicelive is an harmonizer, stop.
You input something (voice) you get something+the same something, differently pitched.
You sing C4, you get your voice singing C4,F4 AND A4. with added gender bending, vibrato, growl, scoop, eq, compression, whatever. But still there’s nothing if there’s not your voice.
There are no samples in it, no “choirs”, nothing.
You GOTTA SING, man…
This is true for ANY harmonizer.
Vocoders often let you play the carrier alone [which can be some kind of choir or saw-wave voice-like wave): which can be ugly or peculiar, like in the old korg vc-10, or in the dvp-1.
This happens in the roland “vocoder keyboards”.
But harmonizers are EFFECTS, not sound generators. There’s no “oscillator” in there. |
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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ozy"]No no no, hold on.The voicelive is an harmonizer, stop.
Whoa, then it seems like I'm more in need of the the Roland VP-7 if I want to use it both ways, human voice w/harmonizer or just keyboard getting choruses out of it. If you check out the time code on this video at 3:25 then you can see the keyboard setup I want to do (in addition to backing up my vocals or keyboard leads, whichever I choose). This is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFc0H50EanE
Now, on my Roland Fantom X, which I just sold to pre-order the Kronos, I had SRX expansion boards with extra patches that had phenomenal choral voices of the same quality as shown with the VP-7 here. Maybe I should wait and see what human VOX patches come with the Kronos before paying for a separate hardware voice processor for choral backings (without my voice input). I have never heard any choral sounds being demo'd on the Kronos whereas the Yamaha Tyros 4 (arranger) has many very realistic choral sounds. So thanks for the warning about my assumptions. I figured that since the VL-2 is so sophisticated it would be able to do both voice processing and play just from my keyboard. Significant difference for me if I can't do both. |
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nowtime
Full Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ozy"] | Hal2001 wrote: | ...Reading the reference guide, the paramenters of the kronos vovoder are identical to the m3-radias. Pitched elements of the voice (vocals) won't be separately managed.
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So this is the same as the R3? (has fingers crossed)  |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="nowtime"] | ozy wrote: | | Hal2001 wrote: | ...Reading the reference guide, the paramenters of the kronos vovoder are identical to the m3-radias. Pitched elements of the voice (vocals) won't be separately managed.
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So this is the same as the R3? (has fingers crossed) |
Looking at the Parameter Guide, the Vocoder IFX has some similar parameters for the overall sound - formant shift, threshold, HPF-Thru, etc.
However you don't get the pan and level control of each individual band that the R3 has from what I can see.
I'm not sure if Ozy was referring to the additional Vocoder functionality in the M3 provided by the EXB Radias (Which would be similar to the R3), or if he was actually referring to the insert effect vocoder on the M3 which has nothing to do with the EXB-Radias.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:16 am Post subject: Voicelive 2 without instrument |
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| This is a reverse of a question I had earlier. My new question is, can I use the voicelive 2 using only my voice or do I always have to have a guitar or keyboard or other instrument plugged into it to give it additional harmonizer information? The videos I saw always showed someone playing a guitar with it. Will the VL2 harmonize just to my voice with no other signal coming in? Basically, can I sing accapella with it? Thanks, anyone. |
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spritz76
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Ferrara, Italy
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is a reverse of a question I had earlier. My new question is, can I use the voicelive 2 using only my voice or do I always have to have a guitar or keyboard or other instrument plugged into it to give it additional harmonizer information? The videos I saw always showed someone playing a guitar with it. Will the VL2 harmonize just to my voice with no other signal coming in? Basically, can I sing accapella with it? Thanks, anyone. |
Yes, you just need to set the key manually beforehand to have proper harmonies as with no instrument plugged it can't be auto-detected.
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Keys Gear: Korg Kronos 61 #555, Yamaha CP33, Motif XS-Rack, Waldorf Blofeld Keyboard, Ensoniq SQ-1, Roland Lucina AX-09
Past Gear: Korg M3-73 + EXB-Radias + EXB-M256 + SD card mod, Yamaha TX-802, Ensoniq MR-Rack |
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ozy
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Voicelive 2 without instrument |
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| Hal2001 wrote: | | This is a reverse of a question I had earlier. My new question is, can I use the voicelive 2 using only my voice or do I always have to have a guitar or keyboard or other instrument plugged into it to give it additional harmonizer information? The videos I saw always showed someone playing a guitar with it. Will the VL2 harmonize just to my voice with no other signal coming in? Basically, can I sing accapella with it? Thanks, anyone. |
of course you can sing a capella.
you can have the harmonized notes
a) to be chosen by playing a midi keyboard (so-called "vocoder mode" in digitech parlance, "notes mode" in tc-helicon. it's not really a vocoder in the traditional meaning, but the idea is that you make keys "sing")
b) shift mode. You sing notes, and get FIXED intervals following your melody (eg: octave up, octave dowen, 5th, 4th. Or any interval you program). Not rocket science, but... whatever
c) chordal mode. You input the chords of the song, sing, and harmonies will be appropriate
d) scalic mode: you input the song's scale and go. very intelligent and with lot of variations
scales and tuning can be custom-programmed
AND you can build "songs": you can change preset during a song [which can change the mode], OR change chord while keeping the preset.
You can solo with just a bit of "octavizer", then tackle a chorus with full harmony.
Never using a keyboard.
Hugely flexible.
Finally: yes, you can try harmonizing a guitar or a lead synth. Result is not guaranteed since the voivelice is fine-tuned for voice (dynamics, frequencies, etc), so... you can exoperiment, but if THAT's your main purpose, go for specialized guitar harmonizers
PS: In all my comments about m3's vocoder I was talking about the radias exb.
The "transparent" character is evidente in the M3's insert-effect vocoder as well, though, albeit it's less flexible.
I am not sure, but I think the radias' and the r3's vocoders are quite the same thing. Never check myself, but most r3 feature are a radias' offspring |
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Mystic38
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Voicelive 2 without instrument |
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I don't want to confuse you any further but the tc helicon voice works is also a possibility here.. $300 new, and $200 off eBay.Up outstanding mic preamplifier and selectable Up to 4 part harmony... A 1u rack vs a stomp box tho.
I particularly like the preamplifier and thicken effects.. Very natural even with default settings and the different harmonization modes are very useful
Again, unlike the vp7 it does need a carrier.
| Hal2001 wrote: | | This is a reverse of a question I had earlier. My new question is, can I use the voicelive 2 using only my voice or do I always have to have a guitar or keyboard or other instrument plugged into it to give it additional harmonizer information? The videos I saw always showed someone playing a guitar with it. Will the VL2 harmonize just to my voice with no other signal coming in? Basically, can I sing accapella with it? Thanks, anyone. |
_________________
Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hal2001 wrote: | | ...Reading the reference guide, the paramenters of the kronos vovoder are identical to the m3-radias. |
This is not true.
The Kronos vocoder has only basic features like the vocoder effect of the M3 (without EXB-Radias). The Radias/EXB-Radias/R3 vocoder has much more comprehensive features.
KRONOS______________________
EQ and Filters 026: Vocoder (parameters in the effects section)
CARRIER
Trim [0…100]
Noise Level [0…100]
Source [Off…Tempo]
Amount [+/–100]
MODULATOR
Trim [0…100]
Source [Input, FX Control 1, FX Control 2]
Select [L/R Mix, L Only, R Only]
VOCODER
Formant Shift [–2…+2]
Response [0…100]
Low Gain [dB] [–12…+12]
High Gain [dB] [–12…+12]
Modulator High Mix [0…100]
OUTPUT
(same as other effects)
RADIAS______________________
6. Vocoder Parameters
P06 CARRIER
P06–1: LEVEL
1: InSrc1 (In Source 1) [Timbre1…4]
2: InSrc1Lvl (In Source 1 Level)<SRC1> [000…127]
3: InSrc2 (In Source 2) [ExtIn1…IntBusR]
4: InSrc2Lvl (In Source 2 Level) <SRC2> [000…127]
5: VcdLvl (VOCODER LEVEL) <VC> [000…127]
P06–2: BAND PRM (Band Parameters)
1: Band [01…16]
2: Level <LEVEL> [000…127]
3: Pan <PAN> [L63…CNT…R63]
P07 FILTER
P07–1: FILTER
1: FrmntSft (Formant Shift) <FRMNT> [–2…+2]
2: FcOffset (Frequency Offset) <FC> [–63…+63]
3: Resonance <RESONANCE> [000…127]
4: FcModSrc (Fc Modulation Source) <FC MOD SRC
5: FcModInt (Fc Modulation Intensity) <FC> [–63…+63]
6: E.F.Sens (Envelope Follower Sens) <E> [000…127]
P08 MODULATOR
P08–1: MODULATOR
1: Modulator (Modulator Select) <MODULATOR> [Audio, FrmntPly]
2: Formant (Formant Motion Select) [Motion01…Motion16]
3: Mode (Formant Motion Play Mode) [FreeRun, TrigReset]
4: AudioSrc (Audio Source) [ExtIn2…IntBusR]
5: GateSens [000…127]
6: Threshold <THRESHOLD> [000…127]
7: HPF Level <HPF> [000…127]
8: HPF Gate [Disable, Enable]
9: DirectLvl (Direct Level) <DIRECT> [000…127] |
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