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dokido
Full Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
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 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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the same arp as on m50 doesnt exist on kronos
and karma to m50 is on computer, as in motif
but the arps on motif are wery advanced vs korgs arps (I dont mean karma) but I dont know if they are programable?
I could not with MO6
I wonder if you can control karma with motifs arps or m50s arps?
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M50, M3, Radias, Kaossilator Pro, Kaosspad 3, EMX, Microkorg X and Native Instruments and Polar Ti Virus |
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Strider
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Albany, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| dokido wrote: | the same arp as on m50 doesnt exist on kronos
and karma to m50 is on computer, as in motif
but the arps on motif are wery advanced vs korgs arps (I dont mean karma) but I dont know if they are programable?
I could not with MO6
I wonder if you can control karma with motifs arps or m50s arps? |
Yes, you can send the arp MIDI out of a Motif and into an M3 or Oasys (or, I assume, a Kronos) to trigger Karma. You can also use Motif arps to trigger the Karma software on a PC) Control? Well... More like create chaos most of the time. But sometimes a sort of limited chaos is interesting, even attractive.
You can have hours of fun mixing arps and Karma.
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Jim Strider
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minnkorg
Junior Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 72
Location: MN USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: |
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StephenKay Wrote
| Quote: | | Also, it's worth pointing out that there is a GE Type that was created specifically to emulate the programmable arp in the Triton and M50 - you program it in a very similar fashion, and if you are comfortable programming that, you could easily program a GE of that type in the KARMA Kronos Software. I intend to, at some point, publish a tutorial on how to program that kind of GE, as it will be of interest to many who have owned a Triton or M50. Some of the GEs in the factory voicing are actually imported Triton arps... |
Stephen does this apply to the Oasys also?
I have been struggling with the Oasys Karma and wanted to do with the Oasys what I can do with my MotifXS... which is to create specific backing as far as Base Runs, Drum Rolls, intro ....etc.
Now I am thinking of buying your KO software in order to do this.
Hence the question if this "emulation" GE is available on the Oasys?
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Music is food for the soul.
iMac 24"-Logic9 Pro,Behringer X32,Roland VS2480CD,Korg Oasys88,Korg Radias, Yamaha Motif XS8, Roland Integra 7,Roland XP80,Roland VPro Session,Fender USA Strat, Gibson Les Paul USA Studio, Ovation Custom,Fender Jazzmaster Base,Roland GT6, Line6 PodXt Live. TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Marshall JVM 410H 1960CABS. Fender Princeton Chorus. |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| gjvti wrote: | | StephenKay wrote: | | Also, it's worth pointing out that there is a GE Type that was created specifically to emulate the programmable arp in the Triton and M50 - you program it in a very similar fashion, and if you are comfortable programming that, you could easily program a GE of that type in the KARMA Kronos Software. I intend to, at some point, publish a tutorial on how to program that kind of GE, as it will be of interest to many who have owned a Triton or M50. Some of the GEs in the factory voicing are actually imported Triton arps... |
That is very interesting indeed. Which GE Type it is? Tutorial how to do that would be very helpful and I really would like to see if this process is as simple as programming TR arps. |
| minnkorg wrote: | Stephen does this apply to the Oasys also?
I have been struggling with the Oasys Karma and wanted to do with the Oasys what I can do with my MotifXS... which is to create specific backing as far as Base Runs, Drum Rolls, intro ....etc.
Now I am thinking of buying your KO software in order to do this.
Hence the question if this "emulation" GE is available on the Oasys? |
Yes. As the following collage/diagram shows briefly, the GE Type is based on the RTC Model "7 GV1 - Gated Vel/Pat1". You initialize a GE, and when you do, you are given a choice of 13 different RTC Model types as starting points. So you choose this particular RTC Model and it sets things up in the mode that simulates a Triton/M50 arp.
On the left side of the diagram you see an example pattern, and the way that you set up that pattern on the M50 arp. The rows of the grid relate to the note, where the bottom row plays the lowest note, the next row plays the next note, and so on. If you have any experience with the Triton or M50 arp, you'll know what I'm talking about.
In KARMA, when it is set up in this RTC Model, the Cluster Pattern functions virtually equivalent to the arp grid. On the right side, you see the Cluster Pattern set up exactly the same way - 8 steps, and the same pattern. This produces identical results.
Nearly all of the functionality of the Triton/M50 arp can be achieved; you just have to do them in different places, it's not all on one or two pages. For example, you can set the resolution of the arp to be a 16th note, an 8th note, a triplet etc. In KARMA, you edit the Rhythm Pattern. Shown at the upper right is the Rhythm Pattern set to all 16th notes. If you wanted this to be an eight note arp, you would set them all to be 8th notes. Of course, there are more options in KARMA - you can set each step of the arp phrase to be a different rhythmic value.
A few other examples:
In the arp, each step has a Gate value (duration). In KARMA, you edit the individual values of the Duration Pattern. In the arp, each step has a "Flam" setting which "strums" chords on that step. In KARMA, in the Cluster Editor, you use the Strum parameter and the values in the bottom of the grid, to chose an up or down strum and a percentage of the overall strum time to apply to that step.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| AK-Jake wrote: | Absolutely awesome replies here, folks. Thanks!
Regarding Yamaha "patenting programmable arps," I can list 3 names (I won't) and provide actual emails (again, I won't) from ROLAND reps at various different levels within the company telling me that the reason the Fantom G doesn't have programmable arps is because "Yamaha patented that feature."
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So when did Yamaha Patent the technology?? Because the V Synth has programmable arps.
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dokido
Full Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Strider wrote: | | dokido wrote: | the same arp as on m50 doesnt exist on kronos
and karma to m50 is on computer, as in motif
but the arps on motif are wery advanced vs korgs arps (I dont mean karma) but I dont know if they are programable?
I could not with MO6
I wonder if you can control karma with motifs arps or m50s arps? |
Yes, you can send the arp MIDI out of a Motif and into an M3 or Oasys (or, I assume, a Kronos) to trigger Karma. You can also use Motif arps to trigger the Karma software on a PC) Control? Well... More like create chaos most of the time. But sometimes a sort of limited chaos is interesting, even attractive.
You can have hours of fun mixing arps and Karma. |
well that I know but I mean from motifs arp to motifs karma, now I'm using M50 arp to M3 karma. And well it's perhaps chaotic sometimes but that my kind of music, it's like a big drummachine
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M50, M3, Radias, Kaossilator Pro, Kaosspad 3, EMX, Microkorg X and Native Instruments and Polar Ti Virus |
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gjvti
Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 327
Location: Riga, Latvia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen, thanks for illustrations! It looks that programming TR arps in Karma sw are really very similar except you have lots of other initially confusing options. Only downside is - when you program a patch on keyboard and at some point decide to experiment with some arp you have to leave your keyboard, find a laptop (in my case), switch it on and wait some long minutes while it boots, do the cabling and finally launch karma sw. Sad that korg is unable to find motivation to implement this basic editing, for the parameters you just showed, right on the keyboard. It really doesn't look exceptional, at least for me as not involved person |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| gjvti wrote: | | Stephen, thanks for illustrations! It looks that programming TR arps in Karma sw are really very similar except you have lots of other initially confusing options. |
It's like anything else - confusing until you learn the terminology and the paradigm.
| Quote: | | Only downside is - when you program a patch on keyboard and at some point decide to experiment with some arp you have to leave your keyboard, find a laptop (in my case), switch it on and wait some long minutes while it boots, do the cabling and finally launch karma sw. |
Well, you make it sound as if your computer is turned off all the time and on a shelf in the closet. My computer is turned on all the time, and easily accessible. C'mon, isn't yours already booted up most of the time, from using the internet and email, and posting replies to this forum? 
| Quote: | | Sad that korg is unable to find motivation to implement this basic editing, for the parameters you just showed, right on the keyboard. It really doesn't look exceptional, at least for me as not involved person |
Well, full GE editing of all parameters of KARMA would be quite an extensive thing to implement. We discussed it way back in the Karma Workstation days, and it turned out to be too difficult and time-consuming. It would almost require another "Mode" (the KARMA Mode) - there are so many pages. With great power comes great responsibility, or something like that... although in this case it's "complexity".
But in any case, I would like to provide the feature to turn a phrase recorded in the sequencer into a GE of some type...
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AK-Jake
Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kontrol49 wrote: | | So when did Yamaha Patent the technology?? Because the V Synth has programmable arps. |
Obviously that whole idea isn't true, but I was told it was somewhere in the mid-2000s, because the Roland Fantom X line (released in May-ish 2004) had programmable arps in it, but the Fantom G (released in May 2008) did not.
Personally, based on watching how Roland operates these past 3 years (the Fantom G was my first Roland product), I think Roland is full of crap and they like to spew that crap to try and hide the real reason behind their mentality: Money. With all the new functionality they added to the Fantom G, they cut a whole bunch of older functionality to keep the price of the G in the market that people can "afford" and still compete with the 2 other "Big-3" manufacturers, both of which had older products out at the time at lower price-points. The loss of that older functionality drove the user-base into a bad frenzy (that eventually became an outright rage). They started asking for the return of this functionality, and I can only think of one major thing that returned: multisampling. (Think about it for a sec: can you imagine Roland shipping a new flagship workstation that doesn't multisample!? They did! It returned several months after product launch in the first major OS update.) Otherwise, Roland teased the user-base with "OS updates" that were coming...and the few that did contained very little functionality and were mostly "content updates" that added in new sounds/grooves, arp patterns, etc. Now they are completely silent. No OS updates, no teasing, no nothing...and they still have an upset user-base. I suspect they're working on a new workstation and have ceased development on the Fantom G...pity, because it's nowhere near its potential, and the sequencer still lacks basic functionality that people have wanted for several years that USED to be in the Fantom X.
This is all my personal observation and comments. I could be WAY off base. I love my Fantom G--flaws and all--but I'm very disheartened with the Roland Corporation and will have a hard time shelling out cash for their products in the future. Korg, on the other hand, really seems to have listened to its users and has put out what appears to be a remarkable product with the Kronos. That's refreshing, as I was NOT impressed with the M3 (I hated how it sounded), and the price of the OASYS was more than I could justify, even used. With the Kronos and the peace-of-mind Korg is providing me by proving they actually care about their customers, coming back to Korg is like coming home to an old friend. And it's good to be home. |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Kronos' Arpeggiator |
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| AK-Jake wrote: | word on the street is that Yamaha somehow "patented" programmable arp technology, so no one else can put that in unless they pay Yamaha for the right to do so. My gut feeling is that KARMA is Korg's "way around" this.
Anyone heard anything on this matter? |
Never heard that one. Other synths have programmable arpeggiators too, e.g. Kawai K5000S, Waldorf Blofeld... |
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dokido
Full Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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perhaps yamaha patented their own arps witch are a little different from traditional arps, its more like something betwen karma amd regular arps imo.
ex. the bass line has a lot of glides and stuff
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M50, M3, Radias, Kaossilator Pro, Kaosspad 3, EMX, Microkorg X and Native Instruments and Polar Ti Virus |
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gjvti
Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 327
Location: Riga, Latvia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: |
Well, you make it sound as if your computer is turned off all the time and on a shelf in the closet. My computer is turned on all the time, and easily accessible. C'mon, isn't yours already booted up most of the time, from using the internet and email, and posting replies to this forum?
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some offtopic.
Yeah, maybe it sounds funny. At home I have only a laptop and switch it on when I know for sure I will really need it. I work all day at computer so when I'm at home PC is absolutely last thing I want to see. Also I usually read/post something here early morning - after taking kids to school I am at work about hour before work starts. |
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mkpcola
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea of using Karma to create appregios on fly rather then create one from scratch. Creating and editing appregios are time consuming. I will get Karma software for Kronos later if I really want to create my own GEs/appregios.
I really wonder why people want editable appregio system that badly...
I tried Oasys before and onboard Karma is more than enough for creation of almost any appregio I needed.
Bottom line is appregios are absolutely not essential for a synth either for recording or live performances except in DJ-like setting. |
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dokido
Full Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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arp is essential for me, how do you know?
but I agree about that I dont need to create my own arps, but I would like to have a lot of knobs so I can change the arps settings on the fly, gain, velocity etc, that is really fun. like in micro X, but there is more knobs in yamaha motif xf, 8 of them
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M50, M3, Radias, Kaossilator Pro, Kaosspad 3, EMX, Microkorg X and Native Instruments and Polar Ti Virus |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| dokido wrote: | | but I agree about that I dont need to create my own arps, but I would like to have a lot of knobs so I can change the arps settings on the fly, gain, velocity etc, that is really fun. like in micro X, but there is more knobs in yamaha motif xf, 8 of them |
That exists in Kronos. There are 16 controllers (8 switches and 8 sliders) hooked up to each KARMA Module. You change the control layer and all 16 are hooked up to one Module - and there is a master layer, where the 16 are hooked up to various macros that control all Modules at the same time. For example, in the Master Layer, Slider 3 is almost always hooked up to duration (gate) on all 4 modules, Slider 4 is hooked up to Velocity Accents on several modules, etc. Plenty of real-time control for morphing the music and having "fun".
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