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Sample and Sample Editing Tools I need in Kronos
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jahrome
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Sample and Sample Editing Tools I need in Kronos Reply with quote

I am hoping that Korg Kronos has all the sampling and sample editing tools of the M3 plus some additional features. Here is a list of sampling tools I would like to see included:

Sampling:
1. 2 GB or more sample RAM for user sampling
2. Sample to Hard Disk or USB device
3. Insert Effects/Resampling: Add Realtime Time Stretch (tempo change, no pitch change) and Realtime Pitch Shift (Pitch change, no tempo change) as Insert effects
4. Import Korg, Wav, Aiff, Sound Font 2.0, Akai S and Z series, EXS, Audio CD tracks
5. Stream samples from SSD or USB
6. Sample List. Open up a popup list to show all samples (with identifying info such as stereo/mono, sample rate, etc) in RAM. Ability to copy or delete samples in the list.

Editing:
1. Sample playhead/marker. Verticle line to indicate which part of sample is playing
2. Delete. Delete selected range between start/end points
3. Discard. Delete parts of sample outside of start and end points
4. Copy. Allow multiple data entries to be placed in buffer; ability to covert data in buffer into a multisample
3. Silence. Silence a selected range
4. Extract. Extract part of sample between start/end points and create new sample
5. Normalize
6. Reverse
7. Time Stretch (offline and real time function)
8. Pitch Shift (offline and real time function)
9. Grid Function - Detect BMP/Tempo. Ability to set sample start/end points, select # of bars of the sample, and set time signature and have Kronos automatically detect BMPs/tempo based on these settings
10. Time Slice.
a. Automatic. Auto slice sample according to transients
b. Equal. Ability to divide a sample into 2-128 equal regions
11. Loop. Ability to loop a sample with up to 4 different loop points
12. Snap to zero.
13. Stereo to Mono, Mono to Stereo. Covert stereo sample to two Mono samples; convert two mono samples to stereo sample
14. Gain.
15. Bit reduce
16. Sample rate convert
17. Fade In/Fade Out
18. Undo/redo. Undo or redo the last destructive editing
19. Sample Time. This is a modification of setting Sample Start/End points. It will allow users to set the time from the Sample Start to Sample End.


Multisampling:
1. Add Sample Start/End to Index parameters. This will allow multiple indexes to reference a single sample.
Example: Record a sample saying “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.” Create 7 indexes. Assign this sample to each index.. Within Index 001, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “1, 2”; within Index 002, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “2, 3”; within Index 003, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “3, 4.” This is a more flexible and quicker alternative to Copying and Pasting. Since each index is referencing the same sample, it saves memory.

Loop Edit:
1. Tie Loop Edit parameter to an Index instead of a sample. This will allow you to assign the same sample (without copying) to multiple indexes and setting independent loop start/end points. This will give me multiple loop variations of the same source material without using additional memory.
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can tell you right now that if you unload all the EXs in the preload you'll get a maximum of 1 GB for your own samples.

And you will not be able to stream your own samples from SSD, let alone USB. At least at this point.



You are kind of too late to the party - Kronos' feature list has already been finished for v1.0. You can only hope that Korg will include the features that aren't there from your exhaustive list in a possible update.
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axxim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny to see how much demands, "I need/I want's" and "have to's" are posted for a system which development apparently has been finished. Wink

If I had to envelope such a system I would set up a customer requirement thread for it and go for vacation about ten years knowing that wen I get back there will be still comming new requirements which would give me again a lot of time before I should start developing it Wink
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axxim wrote:
It's funny to see how much demands, "I need/I want's" and "have to's" are posted for a system which development apparently has been finished. Wink

If I had to envelope such a system I would set up a customer requirement thread for it and go for vacation about ten years knowing that wen I get back there will be still comming new requirements which would give me again a lot of time before I should start developing it Wink


ha - as someone who has had a lot of involvement with custom software development cycles over the years, this is not something unique. My favorite are the requests followed by "it can't be that hard or take too long" from people who have no clue about what it actually takes to engineer something like this (not that I have seen a lot of those around this forum, but it's just a personal gripe of mine).
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely agree it could take time to develop stuff, and it can't be done on a version 1.0... because if a developer tries to includes everything, it will take for ever... for so long than the product will never show up and will never be done.

However, it's also very import to make this kind of list to let developers know what customers really want and wish for.

For instance, Avid do have a very nice dedicate website on ideascale, to allow people to submit request about bugs, features, improvements, etc... and allow them to vote for and know the most important priorities. I wish Korg would do the same Smile

Regarding the list, I'm all for it... I wish new keyboard (or even software) will bring back real Sampler with real sample editing features...

Sampling:
4. I would add Kontakt format.... pleeeeease (It shouldn't be difficult... I'm joking Smile ).

Phil
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BasariStudios
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOLZ Exclamation
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djtomy.d1



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure it would be nice if someone (from Korg) explain how is with loading your own samples. If you don't load them on boot-up can you during sound change in set list mode?
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jahrome
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a lot of time putting together my exhaustive list. This list is a summary of the best features found in sampling workstations I have used over the past decade (Fantom, Motif, Triton Studio, ASR-10, MPC, etc). In recent years, it seems like the sampling capabilities of keyboard workstations are an after thought (Fantom G was released without multisample capabilities). Personally, I am not asking any company to reinvent the wheel. Much of what I have listed is typical tools found in good samplers. Based upon my experience of using the aforementioned workstations and watching them mature with OS updates, it shouldn’t be too hard or take too long to implement any of these functions.
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jahrome wrote:
it shouldn’t be too hard or take too long to implement any of these functions.


Or so you would think.


Well, to be frank, quite a big chunk of your list is most likely possible to do on Kronos. I just told you off the bat what ISN'T possible to do currently.
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bobbybland
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you like sugar and creamer as well? Shocked Rolling Eyes
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ozy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobbybland wrote:
Would you like sugar and creamer as well? Shocked Rolling Eyes


milk on the side, pls
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jahrome
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
jahrome wrote:
it shouldn’t be too hard or take too long to implement any of these functions.


Or so you would think.


Well, to be frank, quite a big chunk of your list is most likely possible to do on Kronos. I just told you off the bat what ISN'T possible to do currently.


There are some brilliant programmers in this world....I would dare to say we have some geniuses out here in Japan. I have also been involved with beta testing software for music production workstations and know how much work goes into developing software....and have witnessed first hand how feature requests have been quickly implemented. I am aware that a chunk of what I have written should be possible with Kronos right out the box since many of these functions can be done by the M3. The other functions are possible with other sampling workstations (both keyboard and desk top pad oriented models). I am here speaking for the minority that care about the sampling capabilities.


This is just a list of things that me and numerous others that do sample-based production want. I hope this will generate some noise and find its ways into the hands of the folks that can make it happen. If we are quiet we will be given what Korg "thinks we want" as opposed to what we really want/need.

I am aware that many around here don't care. Some of you in this thread have posted the same comments in other threads about what others would like to see in the Kronos. It seems some of your are offended by such requests. I can't think of a nicer way to say "get a life" and "get over yourselves." Razz

The functions that you said ISN'T possible have been written about several times in this forum (streaming samples). This is a very valid feature request by many....as the Motif XF gives its users up to 2 GBs of flash storage for samples to immediately have at their finger tips. This is a want for sure.

Thanks for your input.
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do care about Sampling and I do appreciate your post Jahrome.

Don't pay attention about some reactions... You know, we're in an era of ROMpler where people over-consume "Presets" and don't have any clue at all about sound design.

Korg brought synthesis in the Kronos to do Sound Design, so it gives hope they will also come later with tools for Sampling which is another base of Sound Design.

Phil
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jahrome wrote:
The functions that you said ISN'T possible have been written about several times in this forum (streaming samples). This is a very valid feature request by many....as the Motif XF gives its users up to 2 GBs of flash storage for samples to immediately have at their finger tips. This is a want for sure.


Do not confuse XF's facility to load 2 GB of samples to Kronos' direct-from-disk streaming. In practice, you can use a lot more than 2 GB of samples using Kronos' approach, IF it were able to stream user samples - hence XF is gonna be blatantly murdered and humiliated if this happens.


Also - how about we actually wait for Kronos to actually be released, THEN start making feature requests? Things won't change between now and release date, the specifications list is finalized.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do not confuse XF's facility to load 2 GB of samples to Kronos' direct-from-disk streaming. In practice, you can use a lot more than 2 GB of samples using Kronos' approach, IF it were able to stream user samples - hence XF is gonna be blatantly murdered and humiliated if this happens.


I'd also like to point out that the XF extremely likely has the same problem as the Tyros which uses the same chip. It takes upwards of 1 hour to populate it with samples, and if you want to make any changes, it's dead slow.

Regards
Sharp.
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