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Sample and Sample Editing Tools I need in Kronos
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SpIdErWeB
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 209
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeroesque wrote:
A touchscreen is more efficient than a keyboard and a mouse? Okay, you type on any touchscreen you'd like, I'll type on a real keyboard and we'll see who gets more words per minute. Deal?

Then we'll crop photos. Who will have to hit undo and reselect regions more often?

Then we'll play a Doom (or whatever FPS). Wonder who will win? (this is actually an interesting case because there would be no need to "aim" with a touchscreen...but try using the touchscreen for your movements and other actions)


Ok, keep croping photo, typing resume and playing doom... and I'll keep making music Smile


Quote:
A mouse is accurate to the pixel. Can your finger can do that? Oh, and your finger isn't transparent.


Nobody cares about pixel accuracy when the GUI is designed. It's a music instrument, not a photoshop station where you need pixel accuracy. The size of the controllers needs to be to the size of your finger... that's it.


Quote:
How do visually impaired people use touchscreens? Do you think Stevie Wonder uses a new Korg or Roland workstation as his main axe?


They don't when the GUI isn't done properly and they still do when it's done correctly because you always have another way (with arrows and stuff) to navigate through the different pages. And there's some interesting idea such the iPhone which includes audio description on overlay, etc...


Quote:
Also, vertically mounted touchscreens are just about the worst thing I can think of, ergonomically speaking. Could you imagine if you had to hold your arm in mid-air all day to use your computer? That is not a replacement for a keyboard and mouse in mainstream computing.


Who speaks about that? Dude, I seriously think you haven't really read previous posts and you clearly are off-topic... because I can't see the point of your comment and how it could be relevant for the Kronos.

Phil
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jahrome
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 378
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
jahrome, why don't you download yourself OASYS manual and see what it could do w.r.t. sample editing? Kronos is most likely largely the same. Perhaps even a bit improved, but we don't know that yet. Still, it'd be worth a shot of checking the user guide(s) for OASYS as baseline info.


I did that already. Oasys and the M3 appear to be identical when it comes to sampling/sample editing. The key functions I am talking about don't appear to be possible based upon the manual.
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jahrome
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: Sample and Sample Editing Tools I need in Kronos Reply with quote

Now that I have used Kronos for just over a week, I am re-visting this topic.

jahrome wrote:
I am hoping that Korg Kronos has all the sampling and sample editing tools of the M3 plus some additional features. Here is a list of sampling tools I would like to see included:

Sampling:
1. 2 GB or more sample RAM for user sampling
2. Sample to Hard Disk or USB device
3. Insert Effects/Resampling: Add Realtime Time Stretch (tempo change, no pitch change) and Realtime Pitch Shift (Pitch change, no tempo change) as Insert effects
4. Import Korg, Wav, Aiff, Sound Font 2.0, Akai S and Z series, EXS, Audio CD tracks
5. Stream samples from SSD or USB
6. Sample List. Open up a popup list to show all samples (with identifying info such as stereo/mono, sample rate, etc) in RAM. Ability to copy or delete samples in the list.

Editing:
1. Sample playhead/marker. Verticle line to indicate which part of sample is playing
2. Delete. Delete selected range between start/end points
3. Discard. Delete parts of sample outside of start and end points
4. Copy. Allow multiple data entries to be placed in buffer; ability to covert data in buffer into a multisample
3. Silence. Silence a selected range
4. Extract. Extract part of sample between start/end points and create new sample
5. Normalize
6. Reverse
7. Time Stretch (offline and real time function)
8. Pitch Shift (offline and real time function)
9. Grid Function - Detect BMP/Tempo. Ability to set sample start/end points, select # of bars of the sample, and set time signature and have Kronos automatically detect BMPs/tempo based on these settings
10. Time Slice.
a. Automatic. Auto slice sample according to transients
b. Equal. Ability to divide a sample into 2-128 equal regions
11. Loop. Ability to loop a sample with up to 4 different loop points
12. Snap to zero.
13. Stereo to Mono, Mono to Stereo. Covert stereo sample to two Mono samples; convert two mono samples to stereo sample
14. Gain.
15. Bit reduce
16. Sample rate convert
17. Fade In/Fade Out
18. Undo/redo. Undo or redo the last destructive editing
19. Sample Time. This is a modification of setting Sample Start/End points. It will allow users to set the time from the Sample Start to Sample End.


Multisampling:
1. Add Sample Start/End to Index parameters. This will allow multiple indexes to reference a single sample.
Example: Record a sample saying “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.” Create 7 indexes. Assign this sample to each index.. Within Index 001, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “1, 2”; within Index 002, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “2, 3”; within Index 003, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “3, 4.” This is a more flexible and quicker alternative to Copying and Pasting. Since each index is referencing the same sample, it saves memory.

Loop Edit:
1. Tie Loop Edit parameter to an Index instead of a sample. This will allow you to assign the same sample (without copying) to multiple indexes and setting independent loop start/end points. This will give me multiple loop variations of the same source material without using additional memory.

Sampling:
1. 2 GB or more sample RAM for user sampling. Only 1 GB supported.
2. Sample to Hard Disk or USB device. Supported.
3. Insert Effects/Resampling: Add Realtime Time Stretch (tempo change, no pitch change) and Realtime Pitch Shift (Pitch change, no tempo change) as Insert effects. Realtime Pitch Shift supported.
4. Import Korg, Wav, Aiff, Sound Font 2.0, Akai S and Z series, EXS, Audio CD tracks. Korg, Wav, Aiff, Sound Font 2, Akai, and audio CD supported. However, I have issues with Sound Font files quickly using all the allotted Index slots allowed in Kronos.
5. Stream samples from SSD or USB. From SSD not supported.
6. Sample List. Open up a popup list to show all samples (with identifying info such as stereo/mono, sample rate, etc) in RAM. Ability to copy or delete samples in the list. Supported; but only a basic listing.

Editing:
1. Sample playhead/marker. Not supported but badly needed.
2. Delete. Delete selected range between start/end points. Supported using "Cut" function
3. Discard. Delete parts of sample outside of start and end points. Supported using "Truncate" function.
4. Copy. Allow multiple data entries to be placed in buffer; ability to covert data in buffer into a multisample. *Only supports 1 data file in buffer.
3. Silence. Supported using "Clear" function
4. Extract. Extract part of sample between start/end points and create new sample. *Must use "Copy" and "Paste" functions to accomplish this.
5. Normalize. Supported.
6. Reverse Supported.
7. Time Stretch (offline and real time function). Realtime not supported; offline supported.
8. Pitch Shift (offline and real time function). Offline not supported; realtime supported with or without BPM change
9. Grid Function - Detect BMP/Tempo. Ability to set sample start/end points, select # of bars of the sample, and set time signature and have Kronos automatically detect BMPs/tempo based on these settings. Not supported.
10. Time Slice.
    a. Automatic. Auto slice sample according to transients. Supported.
    b. Equal. Ability to divide a sample into 2-128 equal regions. Not supported.

11. Loop. Ability to loop a sample with up to 4 different loop points. Supported using "Copy" and "Insert" in Multisample Setup menu.
12. Snap to zero. Supported.
13. Stereo to Mono, Mono to Stereo. Covert stereo sample to two Mono samples; convert two mono samples to stereo sample. *Only Mono to stereo supported.
14. Gain. Supported in "Normalize/Level Adjust."
15. Bit reduce. Not supported.
16. Sample rate convert. Supported.
17. Fade In/Fade Out. Supported.
18. Undo/redo. Undo or redo the last destructive editing. Not supported.
19. Sample Time. This is a modification of setting Sample Start/End points. It will allow users to set the time from the Sample Start to Sample End. Not supported.


Multisampling:
1. Add Sample Start/End to Index parameters. This will allow multiple indexes to reference a single sample.
Example: Record a sample saying “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.” Create 7 indexes. Assign this sample to each index.. Within Index 001, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “1, 2”; within Index 002, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “2, 3”; within Index 003, adjust the start/end for the sample to play “3, 4.” This is a more flexible and quicker alternative to Copying and Pasting. Since each index is referencing the same sample, it saves memory. *If you assign the same sample to multiple indexes, any changes you make will effect all indexes. The only way to share a sample across several indexes and make independent changes is to use the "Copy" and "Insert" function in Multisample Set-up. (See Hustle and Flow 01 thread).

Loop Edit:
1. Tie Loop Edit parameter to an Index instead of a sample. This will allow you to assign the same sample (without copying) to multiple indexes and setting independent loop start/end points. This will give me multiple loop variations of the same source material without using additional memory. *Same as written above.
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agoz



Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone,
I'm Andrea Gozzi from Redmatica. We are currently evaluating adding direct Kronos file support to our line of creative sampling apps (Keymap Pro and AutoSampler), and we were wondering how much interest there would be about it. Any feedback is welcome.

In case you don't know us yet:

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Keymap_Pro.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/AutoSampler.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Videos.html

Andrea
Redmatica
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jimknopf
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the Kronos will be the best selling workstation for a while to come.

And I guess there will be more than enough interest to get certain soft- or hardware-synths samples on board, to complete the great Kronos sound specs and the "one synth can provide all relevant sounds" concept.
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rkuli



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agoz wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'm Andrea Gozzi from Redmatica. We are currently evaluating adding direct Kronos file support to our line of creative sampling apps (Keymap Pro and AutoSampler), and we were wondering how much interest there would be about it. Any feedback is welcome.

In case you don't know us yet:

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Keymap_Pro.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/AutoSampler.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Videos.html

Andrea
Redmatica


I would be interested. I do think I would want a translator first and foremost for my existing library though vs. an autosampler.

thx
RK
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ix studio



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>load Kontakt Libraries with streaming from SSD

why not convert them to soundfont using software ? and then load them as soundfonts ?
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ix studio



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could you port it to pc first ?Smile

agoz wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'm Andrea Gozzi from Redmatica. We are currently evaluating adding direct Kronos file support to our line of creative sampling apps (Keymap Pro and AutoSampler), and we were wondering how much interest there would be about it. Any feedback is welcome.

In case you don't know us yet:

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Keymap_Pro.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/AutoSampler.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Videos.html

Andrea
Redmatica
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jahrome
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 378
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agoz wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'm Andrea Gozzi from Redmatica. We are currently evaluating adding direct Kronos file support to our line of creative sampling apps (Keymap Pro and AutoSampler), and we were wondering how much interest there would be about it. Any feedback is welcome.

In case you don't know us yet:

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Keymap_Pro.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/AutoSampler.html
http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Videos.html

Andrea
Redmatica


I would be interested in a product that supports the Kronos....

Now, do you have any product (OS X) that I can import and export Sound Font files? I have Sound Font files I want to use in Kronos but they are too large. I want to modify them in order to use within Kronos.
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theshinenz
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd definately be interested in a product that I could load EXS24 and/or Kontakt instruments into the Kronos with minimal difficultly for sure!
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jahrome
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 378
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Korg for addressing a big issue I have with the Kronos...limited # of indexes. OS 1.5 will significantly increase the number of available indexes so I will finally be able to load the Sound Font programs I have.
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vstkeys
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Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi jahrome

I am stil strugling in loading intire samples + haven't got enough time to waste on it. I have Kick ass brass samples all ready to go no need for editing cuting triming etc. I find it very comfusing to load the samples and assign to the keys as each key has its own sample so no streching . Man I wasted like 1 hour on it and called it quite.
As the argument here is leaning towards hardware vs computer, I totally agree that editing on a computer is way better, for instance I can just open Kontakt drag and drop the samples as I move the mouse closer to the key to be assigned the samples resize and so on, man straight forward.

Howerver whilst we all have our reasons to like or dislike things all the wise members in this forum should actually share ideas and walkthroughs How To on sampling issues, rather than arguing what is better. Would be great to se some tutorials on how to assign all samples on a computer or on kronos . And hopefully a easy software to use like Kontakt as once all keys are assigned my guess is to convert to soundfonts would be easier
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jahrome
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Posts: 378
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many things I want Kronos to do is possible with dedicated hardware samplers nearly 10 years old.

Besides...the hardware vs software debate is out the window. Kronos is a computer running a dedicated OS. It streams samples like the leading software samplers. So up the specs and give it more powerful sample editing...and defintely improve the onboard sequencer.
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jahrome
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADD:

1. An easy way to stop long one-shot samples from playing once they are triggered. (http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=67684)
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jahrome
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Kronos should arrive today from repair with OS 1.5 installed and memory upgraded. I will spend some time with the sampler this weekend. What I wrote all so many months ago are still relevant today.

At least one company still takes sampling seriously: http://www.akaiprompc.com/mpcrenaissance.php
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