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61, 76, or 88 keys?
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: 61, 76, or 88 keys? Reply with quote

Ok maybe not a KRONOS specific question. I am here because of a post I read that has convinced me to save for a KRONOS over a PS-60 and Radias-R. So now my last point to decide is Keyboard size. How much of a stretch is it to get to the twiddle stick when your right hand is playing high register chords? I think I have ruled out 61 keys as the beds of the 76 and 88 seem to be much more refined and sensitive, sensitive may not be the right word but it's the best I have in my head at the moment. Weight isn't an issue, my tool boxes for work are as heavy and heavier then hauling this 88 key bad boy around should the desire strike me to do so.Are there any other considerations one should make when deciding on the size of a keyboard?
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MartinHines
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One correction. The Kronos is only available in 61, 73, and 88 key models.

The 61 key Kronos has a synth action (semi-weighted) while the 73 and 88 key versions have a piano (weighted) action.

If you think the 61 key version is too small, then the only question remaing is size and weight. The 73 key version is designed for people who want a piano action (like the 88 ) but don't want the size of the 88 for transporting around.


Last edited by MartinHines on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 61, 76, or 88 keys? Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
Ok maybe not a KRONOS specific question. I am here because of a post I read that has convinced me to save for a KRONOS over a PS-60 and Radias-R. So now my last point to decide is Keyboard size. How much of a stretch is it to get to the twiddle stick when your right hand is playing high register chords? I think I have ruled out 61 keys as the beds of the 76 and 88 seem to be much more refined and sensitive, sensitive may not be the right word but it's the best I have in my head at the moment. Weight isn't an issue, my tool boxes for work are as heavy and heavier then hauling this 88 key bad boy around should the desire strike me to do so.Are there any other considerations one should make when deciding on the size of a keyboard?


if you have a strong piano preference, 88 keys.

And for splits/zones , you will have more range.
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Synthoid
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, people here and on other forums have made a big deal about the Kronos's 73 keys (vs. 76) lately.

I don't understand that at all. Yes, the more keys the better, but they act like it was some sort of nasty move on Korg's part.

Laughing
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JPWC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to spring for the 61 key version, I desire the synth feel, semi weight key bed, while the more keys the better, especially important when splitting the keys.

I believe the keybeds of the 73/88 (weighted) are similar to the SV-1, which I have and love, although the weighted keys do fatige my fingers after an hour or two of playing. (I have just too many years play non or semi weighted keys.)

You need to go to a music store and spend some time playing various weighted keys, and chose for your self which you perfer.

As others have stated, if you have years of piano experience, you'll find you velocities on non/semi weighted key to be at or near 127 all the time, you'll lose the dynamic feel you are acustom too.
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know manufactures do like to keep number of models down, but I sincerly believe there's a market between a 61 synth keys and 88 hammer touch keys.

I would like to have a 61 and 76 Synth Keys and a 73 and 88 RH-3 Hammer Keys.

Not having a Kronos 76 Synth keys was a deal breaker for me... so I have to go with the 88 and have Motif XF7 on top... I just hope the RH-3 will be better than my Oasys 88 RH-2 keybed. I ever liked the Yamaha hammer touch (don't ask me why, it's just a matter of feeling).

Phil
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpIdErWeB wrote:

I would like to have a 61 and 76 Synth Keys and a 73 and 88 RH-3 Hammer Keys.
Phil


Really makes sense to me, and here and now I bet that Korg will change their keybed policy for the Kronos at a later point in time. They will not want to lose many potential buayers for ridiculous reasons of too narrow keybed decisions.

That will not help all the first generation buyers though.
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robinkle
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
SpIdErWeB wrote:

I would like to have a 61 and 76 Synth Keys and a 73 and 88 RH-3 Hammer Keys.
Phil


Really makes sense to me, and here and now I bet that Korg will change their keybed policy for the Kronos at a later point in time. They will not want to lose many potential buayers for ridiculous reasons of too narrow keybed decisions.

That will not help all the first generation buyers though.


If I think logical, 61 synth action keys, 73 Semi weighted keys, 88 Hammer grand keys. Then you got all types of keys and three sizes.

Though I want the 73 RH3 one really. Smile
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing I learned with about every semi-stuff is that's always semi-good.

I prefer to have full synth action, or full hammer action... but nothing between. Technically I need to play piano, EPs and stuff, or I need to play Synth Lead, Organ and stuff... but nothing between.

But, of course, that's just my 2 cents and personal usage Smile

Phil
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This brings up something I just didn't think of. I don't have a lot of experience on either. I grew up with a Kimball organ in our house and a Piano in my grandmothers house. Now a cheap keyboard is in our house. Can a person with some practice get the dynamics out of the weighted keyboard that you can get out of a synth board?


As far as different sized boards it seems to me the best ting to do would be make the Kronos a rack unit like the Radias-R and offer several different key beds to choose from to mount it to. Depending on the answer to my question above I think it would be a good idea. Now if you can never learn to get the range of synth dynamics on the synth keys out of a fully weighted board or the full dynamics of the weighted board out of the synth keys then I would like to see it capable of two boards Like our old organ had. Does that sound reasonable.

Also thinking out of the box a bit it would be very cool to see a keyboard framework. What I mean is the ability to mount a Kronos rack over it like the Radias and change key bed length. A frame that would extend a foot or to some increment in between to allow the addition of a key module that would increase a 61 to say 73 or 88. Say you want to play out but don't want 88 then pull out a mod that added the extra keys to the 61. Want synth then switch key beds to fully weighted. I think you guys get my idea.

Could I learn to get synth dynamics out of a fully weighted board? or learn to get Piano key dynamics out of a synth board? I truly don't know what the pros and cons are of one over the other. I am new to this and only really just started paying attention to these different nuances. Anymore help is appreciated! Thanks Bertotti


Korg I think these are some good ideas let me know what you think!
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Hedegaard
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthoid wrote:
You know, people here and on other forums have made a big deal about the Kronos's 73 keys (vs. 76) lately.

I don't understand that at all. Yes, the more keys the better, but they act like it was some sort of nasty move on Korg's part.

Laughing


I think its to do with where the keys start?
If it starts on a C which is nice for keyboard players, but if it starts on an E which is for dumbed-down-key-players, aka guitar noodleheads....
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
Could I learn to get synth dynamics out of a fully weighted board? or learn to get Piano key dynamics out of a synth board? I truly don't know what the pros and cons are of one over the other. I am new to this and only really just started paying attention to these different nuances. Anymore help is appreciated! Thanks Bertotti


All else being equal, both types of keybed are capable of producing the same dynamics. As far as the sound module is concerned, it only sees MIDI velocity values, which are shaped more by the velocity curve you're using than by the type of keybed.

What's more important is what you're trained on. If you're trained on synth-style keybeds, which offer little in the way of physical resistance, you might find yourself tiring out easily or playing too softly if you ever switch to an acoustic piano (or even potentially injuring yourself, if you really push it too far). On the other hand, if you're trained on a hammer-action keybed (like that of an acoustic piano), you might find that a synth-style keybed offers so little resistance that you inadvertently play every note at maximum velocity. This second phenomenon (or a more nuanced variation of it, at least) is what pianists generally refer to when they claim that synth-style keybeds offer inferior dynamics.


Last edited by Citizen Klaus on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Synthoid
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think its to do with where the keys start?
If it starts on a C which is nice for keyboard players, but if it starts on an E which is for dumbed-down-key-players, aka guitar noodleheads....


Well, the M3 73-key is C-C so I assume the Kronos will be as well.

Edit: OK, I just saw a picture and the Kronos is E-E.

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Last edited by Synthoid on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthoid wrote:
Well, the M3 73-key is C-C so I assume the Kronos will be as well.


Kronos-73 is E to E, just like the 73-key version of the SV-1.

And for what it's worth, that's a layout with historical precedent: the 73-key versions of the Fender Rhodes were also laid out E to E. So it's not just converted guitarists who might gravitate to that configuration.
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Synthoid
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, just saw a photo of the Kronos 73.

I'm disappointed as well now.
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