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61, 76, or 88 keys?
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more question please. I watched the release vid the long one, and they were playing drums from an external trigger while the keyboard player was playing. Would it be possible to have a second keyboard above set to different parameters internal to the Kronos and play it at the same time? Some thing small with synth keys not the hammer weighted keys, then you could have the best of both worlds and two independent sounds at the touch of a key! Or is this a redundant newb question?


And don't knock the guitar players to much, they aren't all potheads stuck in a simple detuned key! I love playing guitar and mandolin and my wave drum, bongos etc. An excellent guitarist I talk with told me that Piano and Guitar are the two best instruments to write music on, generally if it sounds good on either of them it is probably a good song. Now I am sure he didn't mean that as the written word but I think we get the idea he was trying to avail.
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
One more question please. I watched the release vid the long one, and they were playing drums from an external trigger while the keyboard player was playing. Would it be possible to have a second keyboard above set to different parameters internal to the Kronos and play it at the same time? Some thing small with synth keys not the hammer weighted keys, then you could have the best of both worlds and two independent sounds at the touch of a key! Or is this a redundant newb question?


In combi and seq mode, each of the 16 simultaneous instrument parts can be mapped to a separate MIDI channel. So say you want to play a piano patch on the Kronos and trigger a pad sound from a separate keyboard. You'd go into combi mode, set your piano patch to respond to MIDI channel 1 (default for the Kronos). Likewise, set your pad patch to respond to MIDI channel 2, and then set your second keyboard to output on that channel, and connect it to the MIDI-in port on the Kronos. Voila.

In program mode, things work differently, though. There (assuming the Kronos works the same as the OASYS in this regard), all incoming MIDI messages are received on the Kronos' global MIDI channel. So a connected external keyboard will function like a more or less exact clone of the Kronos' own keybed, triggering the exact same sounds. (Theoretically, you could get around this with liberal use of keyboard splits and your second controller's transpose function, if it has one.)
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Citizen Klaus thanks, I sure need to do a lot more reading on midi!
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ozy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
don't knock the guitar players to much, they aren't all potheads stuck in a simple detuned key! Piano and Guitar are the two best instruments to write music on


True.

But guitar players have nothing to do with guitars.

Indeed I had classical training in guitar first (piano followed, but at that time it was too late... I was already into synthesizers Wink ),

and I still sometimes use a classic guitar for writing tunes.

What's that to do with guitar players?

My guitar can't stand greasy fingers... her skin is too delicate and smooth...

Not to mention horrid things like a plectrum Mad , a Capo Confused , a harmonizer Embarassed

They are not suited for a Guitar!

At the most, they can be used for... wazzaname of that weird axe that guitar players use as an instrument? Rolling Eyes
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
Citizen Klaus thanks, I sure need to do a lot more reading on midi!


Another company (starts with R...) actually has a really good introduction to MIDI up on their website as a PDF file, but I'm not sure if it's kosher to link to it here. Edit: Bertotti, check your PM inbox.

Back in politically neutral territory, Nick Magnus wrote up a couple of older articles on MIDI for Sound on Sound, though they're not quite as thorough as the aforementioned introduction. (SOS currently seems to have some formatting issues on my computer, but that will probably clear up with time.)


Last edited by Citizen Klaus on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ozy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Citizen Klaus wrote:
I'm not sure if it's kosher to link to it here.


totally. Like a dish of Matza and Fasul
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it Thanks!

Now anyone want to buy an electric guitar? Wink Just kidding, I'm normally not able to sell gear, unless it has gone unused for some time, like years! Shocked

Now in the guitar world around here they won't give lessons on weekends maybe I can find a piano teacher that will, I'm sure it would do my kids good. I would really like to be able to pull the Kronos out of the box and hammer out a nice tune, not to difficult maybe Fur Elise? I can do that on mando why not.

Everyone thanks for the help this thread has been very enlightening for me.
So if you would indulge another question do the semi hammer and hammer weighted keys do after touch? or more importantly does the Kronos 88 do it? I'll go read the info page and see if i can find it. Thanks



edit didn't find my answer.

One more question, what is a good additional keyboard for the Kronos? I really would like two boards like my old organ. No bells and whistles just the ability to use two at the same time with different octaves or voices.
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Boynton
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the answer to this appears to be - use exclusively Combis, each one set to have one (or more) of its parts receive on the MIDI channel sent by the upper (small) keyboard.
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peter_schwartz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boynton wrote:
So the answer to this appears to be - use exclusively Combis, each one set to have one (or more) of its parts receive on the MIDI channel sent by the upper (small) keyboard.


You could also use Sequencer mode, which gives you the added benefit of being able to see the on-screen volume faders move in response to CC#7 (MIDI Volume).

So really, Sequencer mode is another place where you can make and store Combis.
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mamamatze



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I advise anyone to have a walk / drive to the next music store and test the keyboard feel of the RH3 and the synth action of Kronos and then purchase what suits better.

For example me, I might either buy the 61 version synth action and use a master keyboard with weighted keys (which I already have) or buy the 88 key RH3 version and use a synth action or semiweighted/waterfall masterkey.

Also, the new clavia nord stage 2 comes in handy here due to its master keyboard features. You could combine for example Kronos 88 + Nord Stage 2 compact or Nord Stage 2 88 + Kronos 61. I like the clavia concept quite much as well and Kronos 88 + Nord Stage 2 compact would be an awesome combination for me. I rather play organ parts than virtuous synth solos that would require very fast responding keys, so I can go without a synth action and use a waterfall instead.

However, I'll still go to a music store and test the instrumets right under my fingers and then see what suits me best.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying the different types of boards is a must especially for someone newer with limited experience with the different tactile feels.

I have come to realize that I need to start saving some of these topics as there is a lot of information, some of great relavance to me popping up in this thread and others! Now the Kronos is a stretch financially since I want to pay as much cash as possible so I will save for 12 -18 motnhs, seeing the price ofthe nord, well that is just to much for me, any other good second oards to run with the Kronos? Me thinks I should just wait and get the Kronos but now that I am learning more the little Yamaha with built in speakers, kids board, just isn't getting it done! And my Kimball started smoking so it's in storage till I have time to open it up and fix it!

Started reading the midi info from R and it is very helpful!

Thanks everyone for the participation! But it looks as if there is more to learn. I hadn't even considered the sequencer! I bet there's a learning curve there! Shocked
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
Now the Kronos is a stretch financially since I want to pay as much cash as possible so I will save for 12 -18 motnhs, seeing the price ofthe nord, well that is just to much for me, any other good second boards to run with the Kronos?


One option that I've heard bandied about involves MIDI'ing a Korg SP250 to the Kronos-61. The SP250 streets for ~$700 USD, so the combo comes out about $100 cheaper than the Kronos-88 and gets you both the M3's synth action and the RH3 hammer action.

Biggest downside to the combo is that the SP250 doesn't contribute a whole lot outside of the RH3; its sounds are covered (and covered better, in all likelihood) by the Kronos, and it lacks any kind of non-piano expression control. Leaving out aftertouch, I can understand that for $700, but you don't even get pitch and modulation wheels. The SP250 also has more limited options for customizing velocity response and transposition than you'd get from the Kronos. You do get a free half-damper pedal with the SP, though, so I guess that's something if you'd use it.

Otherwise, you're looking at perhaps adding a cheap synth-action controller to the Kronos-88, or maybe even adding a proper synth to it as a second board. The latter option is (likely much) more expensive and could distract you from learning the Kronos if you get another synth for your second tier. You'd broaden your sound pallete, though, so that's a plus.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have let myself get sidetracked with thoughts of a second keyboard. I am off that now, must focus on KRONOS! I will however need to come up with a way to listen other then earphones. I'm undecided on PA or Keyboard amp. I have more research to do. I like the looks of the KC550 but needing two for stereo I'm thinking I'm better off with a PA. Whole other topic for another date. I'm wanting to see more of the discussion you all have been having it has proven to be very informative!
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Scott
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamamatze wrote:
You could combine for example Kronos 88 + Nord Stage 2 compact or Nord Stage 2 88 + Kronos 61.

I'd pick the latter. Korg's 88 is a bit heavy at over 50 lbs. Also, I think I prefer Nord's 88 action to Korg's, and Korg's 61 action to Nord's 73 (though of course you do lose some keys).


Last edited by Scott on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out I'm not off the second board as much as I thought. A turn is forth coming I think. I do like the looks of the nords but I must have a KRONOS! I need to find some where around here with a nord so I can try the keyboards. I'm just thrilled to see I might have a korg Kronos in my future this year!
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