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You shall call me Mr. Bonehead
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Slabwax



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: You shall call me Mr. Bonehead Reply with quote

So here the deal. Lately I've been using my wavedrum for all sorts of gigs.But, I really haven't started to edit sounds much yet, and the manuel does indeed suck.

I have a gig where I need wind ( got it #87 pad) and thunder (#97 Rim). I'm using the WD for a live film foley score performance. So smacking the living bejeebers out of it on the rim is not cutting it. i tried to sort out how to just swap the sound out to the pad and for the life of me I can't get with the whole editing thing with this sound. After I read and reread the manual It looks like I might not be able to.

So my question and request to you all is simple HELP. I just need the thunder on the pad it should be straight forward

Thank you
Mr. Bonehead (AKA Slabwax)
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martygras
Junior Member


Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Southern Oregon USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets see...

To help the thunder trigger on the rim, first try:
[edit 1]
U.Cr (velocity curve)
Select button 4 to edit the rim velocity curve. try a setting of 6.

This should make it way easy to trigger the thunder.

Good luck "Mr. Bonehead". I'd tell you my nickname, but it's not appropriate for the forum. Shocked

If you are still hearing unwanted noises, you can turn the volume of the rim algorithm or the rim PCM volume down/off.
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Slabwax



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help Ill try that today.
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godoy777



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i tried the program with my hand and i see what u mean,tried some med to hard timpani mallets works find for the thunder sound,any med to hard mallet should do,however i tried a gong mallet,no...also make sure yr output is in the x2 mode,u can leave the velocity curve at 000. i do run my wavedrum through a compressor and a mixer but any decent PA should do
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martygras
Junior Member


Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Southern Oregon USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X2 mode does not change the sensitivity of the strikes. Not sure if that is what you meant.

It's also advantageous to make sure you have the [EQ] set to HH (hand on head, hand on rim) for proper sensitivity.
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Bertotti
Platinum Member


Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3369
Location: Middle of nowhere

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hands will toughen up. I play all the programs with my hands at first they got sore now not so much. But mallets are a great item to have along with different sticks and brushes and power rods, etc.. HH does also help a lot!
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Slabwax



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the tips. I'm not sure the sound will work for my needs on this drum. Not being able to trigger the sound from the pad is most likely a deal breaker for this gig. It's a sound effect for a silent film. In this part of the film it's just too exposed to have anything more then a tap on the head with my hand. There is a thunder sound on my Roland hpd-10 that I'm going to try tonight. If it's a decent sound the pads are dead silent I did not want to schlep both drums but I just might have to. Thanks again for all the advice. I'm sure I'll be asking for more down the road.

Dean
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Bertotti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3369
Location: Middle of nowhere

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you record it and edit out the tap first then play it back as a sample from your daw? I think the thunder in here is good and carries on a while!
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Slabwax



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
Could you record it and edit out the tap first then play it back as a sample from your daw? I think the thunder in here is good and carries on a while!


I could do that but we ( my group) would love not to use even an e-drum. We try and do all old school foley sound fx. But do to size restrictions a large thunder sheet is out of the question. So we made a compromise to use the wave drum for two or three sounds. I've been using the wind sound to blend with our wind machine. I'd rather not use a lap top and pull it off with a large concert bass drum which does in fact pull it off but if I could layer it with the WD that would be great. And even with the bass drum the sound of the rim gets heard by the audience and picked up in the mics. Thanks again for giving it thought.



slabwax
P.S.
And if the producers thought they could get away with a lap top jockey that would be the end of a great gig ! Shhh
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godoy777



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reason i mentioned x2 mode is that u should be able to get more volume without striking harder than necessary to get the sound u want.i have played hand percussion for over 50 years, but i play with a light hand compared to most pro percussionist so i usually only use my hand for pressure and to mute the head on the wavedrum, that rim is not good for the old fingers,i need all the volume i can get.
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godoy777



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

u might try program 84 with the rim algorithms from program 97 ,i can't hear my mallet strike over my studios speakers.
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WaveDrummer
Full Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few things to consider here.

As has been mentioned by others, it can be difficult to activate that thunder sound on the rim with just the hands but it really depends on WHERE you are striking. It's quite easy with a hard or med-hard timpani mallet, especially if you strike the rim near the ridges on the right hand side. I really don't have to strike the rim very hard at all, and I would imagine that the sound of the thunder would easily mask the actual sound of the rim strike in a live situation. If I strike the outside edge of the rim with the shaft of the mallet, I can get away with an even softer strike and still trigger the thunder quite easily.

As far as switching those sounds from rim to head:
Program #97 "Rainy Day Drum" utilizes Rim PCM sound#80 (thunder), which is not available in the list of Head PCM sounds. Each list can only be applied to its respective location i.e. Head or Rim. Some sounds are replicated on both (some of the conga sounds, for example) but many of them are not.

The interesting thing about that wind sound in Program#87 "Cold Wind" is that the sound, and the pitch bending effect by pressing on the head, is actually generated from the Temple Algorithm (#2) that is assigned to the RIM! It has been heavily edited from the default settings for Algorithm#2 to achieve that wind effect. But if you assign ALG#2 to the HEAD, and apply the exact same edited parameters, it doesn't sound the same! There is still some metallic tone sound that seems impossible to fully eliminate.

You can experiment with this by playing around with Program #87. If you turn down the levels of all the sounds, except the Rim ALG (button #3), you will see that that's where the "wind" sound is coming from. If you assign that same Algorithm [with edited parameters] to the head (and turn the other three sounds down to 00) it will not sound the same. This is just a good example of how the Algorithms will respond differently depending on whether are assigned to the rim or the head.

Slabwax wrote:
we ( my group) would love not to use even an e-drum. We try and do all old school foley sound fx.

That sounds like a really fun gig! Smile
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WaveDrummer
Full Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

godoy777 wrote:
u might try program 84 with the rim algorithms from program 97 ,i can't hear my mallet strike over my studios speakers.


I think you mean program 87 (Cold Wind)?

If so, you could blend the Thunder and Wind into one program by switching out the Rim PCM sound of Program #87 Cold Wind from the factory setting of Rim PCM sound #77 "Metal Tree" to Rim PCM sound #80 "Thunder."

As noted in my above post, this would mean that both the Wind sound and Thunder were being generated from the sounds assigned to the RIM. You could then change the Head ALG and HEAD PCM to anything of your choosing, or simply turn them both down to a level of 00. You would still hear the Wind and Thunder just the same.

Remember though, simply assigning ALG #2 "Temple" to the Rim in ANOTHER program, will NOT create the wind sound unless you duplicate the edited parameters of that Algorithm as they appear in Factory Program #87.

Unfortunately, this all becomes a bit convoluted when trying to describe it in print due to the somewhat redundant terminology—Program#s vs ALG#s vs PCM#s etc. Rolling Eyes
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Bertotti
Platinum Member


Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3369
Location: Middle of nowhere

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe. Waterdum mod and parallel a trigger with the rim sensor then you could trigger the sound a lot easier.
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WaterDrum
Senior Member


Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Location: 3rd Stone from the Sun , Bavaria

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ slabwax and everybody

here are the sounds in EXCEL format
to get a better overview... Wink

and maybe to copy these 2 soundlines into your usersoundbank

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/30648524/Wind_and_thunder.xls
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