Korg Forums

[X-Trade]

This isn't specifically about the Electribes but I thought as good a place to ask as any.

I play mainly hard electronic rocky-pop stuff with a bit of a dance edge, Working in a duo with a singer currently.

I'm always really stuck on how to make a kit that works for a song (or even better for the whole album). I'm an ESX, ES-1, and Ableton user (and I've my own drum machines based on the ES1, ER1, etc made in Reaktor).

How do you choose your samples? Anything that works particularly well with other electronic sounds? Do you use acoustic or electronic samples for e.g. snares, hats? (my singer always prefers acoustic sampled cymbals and often snares)
How many patterns do you use in an average song/set? do you re-use any in other songs? Do you make use of part mutes? If you use Ableton, do you prefer to have a normalised 'drum mix' across several channels, or just have one channel for the whole drum loop/kit?

Really just looking for good a discussion on how to make great rhythm tracks.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[hazabikit]

Speaking generally, I operate on the assumption that "less is more", so I take a more minimalist approach to writing rhythm tracks.

If I add a kick or a snare drum or a hi-hat, I listen to it and ask myself, "do I REALLY need this sound here? Is it adding something to the track, or is it just filling in some empty space?" (I like empty space, and often wish I had more of it.)
If I think the answer is "yes", then I add it and try to make it sound good.
And then after I add it, I take it back out, and listen again to see if anything is missing.
I repeat this process 5 or 6 times, trying to get just the right sounds for the track.

The downside to all this, however, is that I rarely surprise myself with unexpected combinations...
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"It was really like jewelry work, working precisely." -- Guy-Manuel de Homem-Christo

[X-Trade]

Thanks. I do a lot of that already too. Taking parts in, and out, testing them in the mix.

I'm mainly struggling at the moment with the initial selection of appropriate sounds. I appreciate some choices are fairly genre-specific, although I personally have little idea about 'genres' and don't listen to a lot of other people's music.

I'm surprised more people haven't had something to say on the topic by now.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[Aciphecs]

I wish I had some advice, but I also struggle with percussion
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[thehighesttree]

I just reshuffled my samples this past month, and my main goal was to free up some space by removing redundant sounds from my library. My drums comprise a decent selection of mainly hip-hop (acoustic) and electronic (synth) drums. 15-20 each of kick+snare, 5 each closed+open hi-hat and crash/splash/ride cymbals, and ~20 random 1-hits such as claps, triangles, tambourines, and any other interesting "impact" SFX.

My bass drum section, for instance, is ~70% acoustic, my rationale being that it gives me good flexibility and I can always make them more warped/electro onboard the ESX. I don't really use woodblocks, timpani, vibraslap or any of the other traditional weirdo percussion sounds since I'm going for a more dance style and I feel that these types of sounds are too hokey or distracting for my purposes. Every time I hear a guiro or cuica it reminds me of screwing around in a barebones MIDI editor when I was 13, making a "beat" that was supposed to sound like a monkey opening a bottle of pills and the ensuing freakout.

I'd recommend getting a basic bass/snare/cymbal kit down first and then figuring out what sounds you feel are missing once this is completed and you've had a chance to thoroughly screw around with it. Keep your ears open for everyday sounds (pots, door slams, trains, etc.) to warp and add some subtle (or not-so-subtle) distinction to your sound.

If it's loud and makes you jump when you first hear it you know it's good.

[robosardine]

Get the Korg DS-10 for the Nintendo DS. Use it as intended- (it is super quick with the pen and the touch screen etc: sounds great too) then either copy the whole lot onto your ESX- gate times and all etc ( even sample the sounds) or of course sample the whole pattern(s). Chop as desired. Add some sampled spoken word vocals with the arpeggiator. Hit the Randomize button.. twiddle the knobs.....

[roblabs]

I was going to mention the DS-10+, but i was beaten to it...well, not completely. For me, the DS-10 really helped me with drums. Mainly, it was the limitations of the software. Working with only 4 drum samples, you have to really know what you want. Then I learned that you can really push the limit if you use a bass/snare combo, put a hi-hat for the 3rd drum, and use the 4th for whatever you want. The bass/snare is good for almost anything (similar to what thehighesttree said, if you pick something acoustic-sounding it gives you the more flexibility). The hi-hat, you can tweak to make it sound open/closed if you play around with the gate (or conversely, the pitch). Finally, for the fourth drum sample, you can load a synth patch, a tom for fills, a clap, etc.

I think starting with less is obviously better. You fine tune your sound and come up with a better mix overall.

Music is very much like poetry. You have so many words at your disposal, but if you can say something meaningful with only a few, so much the better.

[hazabikit]

I like to think that the only genre that matters to me is ME -- i.e. I'm playing "my sound", not anybody else's.
However, I've discovered that my influences are easy to spot.

I was playing one of my songs for some friends recently at a Christmas holiday party, and one of them said, "so why'd you make this one sound like Kraftwerk?"
I played another one, and they said, "are you trying to imitate Jean Michel Jarre?"

*sigh*
So much for originality!
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"It was really like jewelry work, working precisely." -- Guy-Manuel de Homem-Christo

[neotechtonics]

I'm using EMX's so i dont exactly have huge options with drums. All depends what direction the music wants to go (I don't ever stick to a single genre) I play to my ear so i'll select any percussion that integrates with the rest of the pattern. If I'm using a booming sub-bass on the synth parts then I'll tend to use a kick with less bottom end so it doesnt get muddy. Conversely I'll choose a bassier kick if thats what I want to be driving the bottom end of the track. I'll always prefer the sound of acoustic percussion but thats not so easy to achieve with the EMX... but I am considering sampling a kit onto my SP404 and using the drum section of the EMX to sequence it.

bottom line is: it all depends on personal preference and the track.
no use in favoritism... if a certain percussion sound doesnt work with a track... change it. ofcourse we'll all have those samples/PCMs we'll go to first cos they've worked well in the past.

using anything too much can make your music more recognisable as "your sound" but it can also make production very formulaic, and i like coloring OUTSIDE of the lines.

whatever works works imho

ADDED EDIT: single percussion channel VS groups/individual: consider grouping the percussion in terms of what frequency range they are to do individual EQing on each group. focus the highs on the hats and perhaps snares and clean out the mids + highs on the kick or toms. I've only recently started experimenting with this because the EMX has weak drums and few options in terms of sound shaping and EQing; I bus selected drums out the individual outs (sometimes panning groups left or right to separate them into 2 mono) then do the EQing, compression and maybe a little reverb (the 'tribes reverb is attrocious!) on my R16
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OTHER GEAR: Roland SP404, MC303 -- Akai MPC-2500 SE -- Zoom R16 -- effects pedals -- DJ-gear -- Access Virus B