Korg Forums

[Alan Waddington]

The JP80 spec states that Effects can be applied to the Upper and Lower Parts and that there is a reverb unit on each part. The JP50 can only apply effects to the upper part. The JP50 spec also only mentions 1 reverb unit. Does this mean that there is no reverb available for the other parts?

Does the effects include the filters or are the filters part of the tone blending? Can I adjust cutoff and resonance on the lower and solo parts? Not sure - how does it work on the solo part on the JP80? Obviously the JP80 lower part has effects, so isn't comparable with the JP50 lower part. I'm also wondering whether it's possible to apply different effects to different tones within a Live Set.

As far as I can tell, there's no sequencer, so is the percussion really useful from a performance perspective. Maybe you are supposed to drive it externally from a DAW?

I like the sound of the JP80 patches, but it's too expensive. The JP50 is cheaper, but I'm not sure about the effects structure.

[Dogmatic1010]

From what I've been reading, it seems that the JP-80 is worth it. Roland aimed to make a good, cheaper alternative but seemed to fail.
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Gear: Korg R3, Audio Technica Headphones, Yamaha YPG-535

[Alan Waddington]

I'm thinking that a Mox6 might be better value. It doesn't have the upper/lower/solo parts, but you can layer 8 voices within the part it does have and the effects structure looks sensible. 64 note poly, no AT.

[MrDuke]

[Alan Waddington]

@MrDuke, thanks for you very valid comment,

I agree, the 64 poly is the weak point of the MOX and it isn't really viable to sequence all parts at the same time. I did find out that the 8 elements are not all used simultaneously and that the actual elements used simultaneously varies from 1 to 4 (From Motif XS docs). Stereo samples use 2 poly, so we could be down to 8 notes worst case. In performance mode, with 4 voices sequenced simultaneously, this would only allow 2 notes per voice. I can see why the Motif-XS has 128 polyphony as this gives 4 notes per voice worst case.

However it's unlikely that all voices in a performance will use 4 poly's. Also I'd probably not play all 4 voices at once most of the time. Some lead voices will be mono and only require one note. If we assume an average polyphony of 3, then we can sound 10 stereo notes, which would still be only 2.5 notes average for each of 4 parts, but would be 3 notes for a maximum of 3 polyphonic parts playing simultaneously. Still not enough. If we only played 2 parts simultaneously, we'd have about 5 notes which is more reasonable. I guess 3 notes drums, 1 note bass and 6 for synth is just about the limit.

The Jupiter JP50 will have 128 poly, and 6 voices. Clearly one could sequence more things simultaneously, so there would be less need to mix multiple recordings. Maybe I'll look at the JP80 spec to find out how much poly each voice takes. Also worth bearing in mind is that JP50 is 76 key rather than MOX6 61 key. Still not sure this is worth twice the price though. I've also tried the 88 key MOX8 and quite like the weighted keyboard.

Edit: Changed above as I just found that stereo samples use 2 poly.

Edit 2: A Roland Supernatural tone can use up to 3 oscillators. The JP50 upper can combine 4 tones, with another tone each for percussion/lower & solo. If we ignore percussion/solo for the moment, this would give a worst case 12 poly used per note on the upper, so we can have a maximum of around 10 notes. If we drop this to 8, then that provides enough spare for 4 note polyphony each for percussion & solo. Looks like voice stealing will be infrequent on the JP50. (This might be a factor of 2 out, if stereo samples use 2 poly. In this case we have more like 5 notes rather than 10)

Edit 3: Looking more closely at the motif xs patch list, it seems that there are only a handful of stereo voices and the number of elements listed against those is double that for the equivalent mono patch. So I've been unduly pessimistic on the poly count. However whichever way you look at it, the Jupiter 50 has about twice the poly at twice the price. I like the sounds of both, so I suppose it's really about how I'd use it.

[Scott]

[John Hendry]

“Roland aimed to make a good, cheaper alternative but seemed to fail.”

I agree. Had cash in hand but will wait until I can afford a J80 and believes it discredits the J80 whereas the M50 gives the OASYS credit and is barely a step down from the M3 that has s/p dif out and KARMA which for a beginner is a lot to learn.

“I would consider the Jupiter 50 as an alternative to the Korg M50-73.”

Not me. IMO the M50 blows the J50 away. They both have un-weighted keys with no AT so personally I can’t see paying for more of them with good AT midi controllers available but agree 61 keys is very limiting for splits but even more so for normal playing so this is only my opinion. I really like the light weight of the M50 61 when the wind is not blowing and have always used a midi controller. Was really disappointed with the J50.

To be fair I have to say I played it at GC in Portland where hearing anything is very difficult as the store is way too loud with the store’s own music playing in the back ground and other people playing stuff, and I haven’t heard the J80 in person yet. But I listened to the M50 there too for a reference and from listening to the J80 on the Internet it seems quite a bit above the J50. It seems to complement the OASYS/Kronos quite well in fact.

I’d like to make my rig smaller and more compact, just two keyboards and a VAX77 controller but for now I’m keeping my JD800 and JD990 along with my WS/AD, O1W/R, M1s and the M50 until I get the KronosX dialed in. The JD800 does a few things no other Roland (using my limited skills) can do and the JD990 has a “clean” Roland sound that mixes in well with my Korg sounds as well as the JD800 which sounds very different from the 990. You can tell the JD800 is male and blow out a set of speakers really easy programing sounds.

Used music gear prices show how much progress has been made over time and the only reason I can see to get rid of older stuff is to be CE compliant and create more space and less weight or pay the electric bill. I’ll be REALLY happy when I see a VAX77 parked where my Fatar 2001 sits but will miss the 8 midi out/in. Look how tiny the VAX77 is in its case. Plus Poly AT! And it's only $3000;-)

John^^
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[Scott]

[madbeatzyo111]

[dimitris]

Remember that MOX has 124 note polyphony in sequencer mode.

Regards,
Dimitris
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KORG PA5X 76 + PaAS - KORG PA1000 (NEW) -KORG NAUTILUS 73 (NEW) - KORG EK-50 - KAWAI VPC1

[John Hendry]

"One of the smartest things Roland has done is keeping the great-sounding D/A converters found in the JP-80 and so the '50 sounds every bit as wide, smooth and punchy. It's easily one of the best sounding synths available."

Humm….I should have reset it to it's factory defaults. I'm going back to GC on Sunday with my head phones and demo it again and request the manager turn off the store's sound system so I can hear it better. If you read my first posts on the M50 you will see the GC manager had tweaked it and I thought it sounded better than the M3 which I did reset to see what was "wrong". So I went back and reset the M50 and sure enough it sounded better because it was setup better for the room and the personal preference of everyone in the room that heard it setup that way.

"Film composers should love it for its breathtakingly realistic expressive acoustic sounds"

That is not what I was hearing at all and just assumed the worst since I had not read about it. I remember thinking how much better the Yamaha's sounded. And the M50 which I did reset out of habit and knowing the system.

From now on I'll reset a keyboard before stating my first impression. But the keys on the J50? I admit I like a full weighted action but I like the Kronos 61 key action too unlike the M50's which is 100% playable but neutral and un-lively feeling. It’s a very light weight keyboard so no surprise there.

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/roland-jupiter-80/6003 "The synth-action keyboard is silky, with a feel as the keys hit bottom that I can only describe as “dead in a good way.”

I understand what KBM is saying after spending time playing the M50, but “dead in a good way.” is not my personal preference. Yamaha and Korg both make simi-weighted synth actions used on their better boards I like, and usually I really like the action on Roland’s best boards too. But that was not the case with the Jupiter 50. But I barely played it and since it has weights in the keys then I’m sure I’d prefer it over the M50 too after spending time with it, but my first impression was a weightless 100% neutral feeling action that didn’t provide any feedback to the force being applied which I prefer to have. And no AT at the J50’s price point is marketing IMO. I was impressed with the AKAI MPK88 controller at its low street price showing what I mean about not having channel AT.

I missed the Jupiter 80’s Supernatural sound found in the Jupiter 50. Now that I know it’s there and what the J50 is I’ll go back and give it a fair demo after resetting it. But I’ll never regret going with the Kronos/X first.

John^^
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[John Hendry]

Been meaning to reply to some of my past post reply’s, one in particular, but other priorities took over and being on the subject of keys wanted to say I did go try out the Roland JP 50 again at GC and agree with Scoot the key action is better by a long shot compared to the M50’s. I can why some really like it. No comment on the sound as the one I tried needs to be reset and was in a loud area so just tried it out to see if I agreed about the key action.

Also tried out the new Korg Krome and WOW what a major improvement over the M50, and less than a pound heavier than the M50 so I won’t complain about the unweighted keys on it at the price point, but after owning the M50 will say they are usable but that’s it and not on par with the JP50’s so I put my foot in my mouth being in a hurry. Just goes to show until you get it home it's hard to get a real feel for a new synth especially at GC. The GC sales guys all said the Krome sounds better than the M50 and AS SET UP at GC it did indeed sound better and I reset both to factory default. So much for selling my M50 now….but that’s the way we should all like it as 3 years is a long time. Safest to buy when new before the next in line comes out that’s for sure. The Krome priced so low with it's new screen is without a doubt in my mind the new King in low cost synths…..just amazing really as it steps on a few of the Kronos’s toes. Hopefully Korg will give the Kronos X everything the Krome has seeing as the X just came out.



John^^
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