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addy73
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: RPPR Vs Karma for changing drum patterns in this situation- |
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RPPR Vs Karma for changing drum patterns in this situation-
I play in a small group (acoustic based guitar, piano, bass, vox) where I want to use my Kronos as my only keyboard for both piano and drum/percussion patterns.
Here are my desired requirements -
Program and use my own patterns exactly as I like.
Be able to use the keyboard to play piano (all keys) without the chance of stopping/changing the drum pattern by accident
Each song will only really need 1-4 different drum patterns to to give the song dynamics
I want to be able to keep the arrangements fluid to accommodate solos/jamming so I want to be able to change the patterns on the fly but still have them "locked" to a measure. I do not want to use per-recorded "Songs".
I thought RPPR would let me do what I need but the triggering restrictions (only C#2 and up) will greatly restrict my live playing and increase the chance of me changing/stopping patterns by accident. Is there an alternative way to trigger RPPR's that give me the whole keyboard to use for my piano??
Or would the Karma feature and the ability to create my own patterns (GEs) with the Korg Karma software be a better option. From what I can tell if I use Combi mode (with 4 modules) then Karma would allow me to have up to 12 patterns per combi? Each DRUM GE has 3 "patterns" X 4 modules = 12?
Please help me decide the best way to do this. |
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MarPabl
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Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 938
Location: MX
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: RPPR |
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For immediate solution, use RPPR and set keyboard zones in order to avoid the RPPR keys to trigger sounds of the other Programs.
If you really need all your keys available, try getting the nanoKeys and set its range to cover your RPPR. Also, set the range of the Kronos accordingly to avoid triggering the Patterns.
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Current gear:  Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800  |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Just an idea, but I think using a nanopad set to channel two (or really anything but the global channel) would be the nicest solution in combination with RPPR. Set the RPPR channel to the same one, of course. |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| addy73 wrote: | | Or would the Karma feature and the ability to create my own patterns (GEs) with the Korg Karma software be a better option. From what I can tell if I use Combi mode (with 4 modules) then Karma would allow me to have up to 12 patterns per combi? Each DRUM GE has 3 "patterns" X 4 modules = 12? |
Hi, while I would not suggest that KARMA is the only way to do it, it's certainly "one of the ways". Let me address some of your questions.
1. I would not be honest if I did not warn you that the KARMA Kronos software can take some time to learn. On the one hand, it's what all the Korg programmers used to originally make all of the GEs that are in the Kronos/Oasys/M3. There's no other way to make GEs.
2. Having said that, importing drum phrases into KARMA and turning them into GEs is one of the easiest ways to make a KARMA pattern. If you have a .MID file of a drum phrase, you can import it into KARMA Kronos and turn it into a Drum GE very easily. It's all set up and ready to go.
3. The "3 patterns per drum GE" concept you mention is not entirely correct. There are three 7-note (plus a rest indicator) pattern grids in a Drum GE. Typically, one pattern does kicks, snares and toms, the second does hi-hats and cymbals, and the third does percussion or additional SFX. If you only need 7 notes for a pattern, you could conceivably use them as three individual patterns x 4 Modules. But that's not the way we usually do it.
4. But, even if you consider a single GE to be "one drum pattern comprised of three complimentary 7-note patterns" (which is how it is usually done with KARMA), you are correct that with four modules you can have four different patterns in a combi.
5. Therefore, you could set it up so that changing KARMA scenes muted one Module, and un-muted another, such that you had four different Drum patterns you could switch between. None of them will be in danger of being shut off (although the advice given with regards to use key ranges with RPPR is correct). I might also mention, this is completely ignoring the fact that within a scene, you can program a single Drum GE to do many different things, which sound like completely different variations.
6. This does require some programming skills. 
7. So does RPPR. It can be used to do somewhat the same thing. You can program a button on an external controller to change the RPPR (as mentioned), or you can change a KARMA Scene from the buttons of the control surface, yielding a different groove. RPPR will never be any more than what it is programmed to be, on that particular key. Whereas KARMA Drum GEs can be manipulate into many additional variations within a scene - whatever you have the patience and inclination to experiment with.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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addy73
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your suggestions.
KARMA Q-
Steven - thanks for the clarification of 3 pattern thing. Just curious how Karma would handle pattern changes. RPPR lets you choose to change after a measure is complete. Does Karma work the same way? Just playing around with some combis, changing scenes seems to take effect right when I press the button. Is there a way for it to wait until the end of a measure?
RPRR Q-
so is there a way to have 2nd RPPR stop the 1st one so when I change start a 2nd pattern I don't have to stop the first one also ? I know I can hit below C#2 but can it be done automatically?
I think I am going to try both methods and see which works out better for me. It will give me an excuse to buy a nano thingy. |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| addy73 wrote: | | Just curious how Karma would handle pattern changes. RPPR lets you choose to change after a measure is complete. Does Karma work the same way? Just playing around with some combis, changing scenes seems to take effect right when I press the button. Is there a way for it to wait until the end of a measure? |
Yes, you can set up KARMA Scene changes to change on the next beat, or the next bar, or wait 2 bars or 4 bars. The parameter is named "Scene Change Quantize Window" and it's on the KARMA > GE RTP / Scenes > Scenes tab (in a combi). Sadly, this is not used in many of the combis (which are set to a 16th note, the smallest window), because many of these combis are ported from earlier Korg products, and I did not add this feature until KARMA 2.1 I believe. I tried to get Korg to change all combis, when working on the Kronos Voicing, to use 1 Bar as it's the most useful, but I only successfully got some of the ones that I or my programmer Paul Osborn originally did changed over. I wish the people at Korg understood the benefit of this setting.
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curvebender
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 784
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | I tried to get Korg to change all combis, when working on the Kronos Voicing, to use 1 Bar as it's the most useful, but I only successfully got some of the ones that I or my programmer Paul Osborn originally did changed over. I wish the people at Korg understood the benefit of this setting. |
It's funny, I thought about this exact situation yesterday!
I guess it's not that hard to change the parameter and save the Combi, but it will take some time to go thru all the Combis..
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addy73
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so I created a pattern last night in the pattern/RPPR section of the sequencer and converted it to a Drum Pattern. I'm pretty sure I'll preffer to create pattern on the computer with a step pattern graphical interface.
If I choose Karma would you recommend that I create the pattern in my DAW and import them into the Karma software or would it be just as easy to create from scratch INSIDE Karma. Is it easy to create the patterns inside Karma that include velocity settings etc... Also, what is the longest a pattern can be in Karma?
Finally - will Karma be able to communicate with the Kronos if I run in on a MAC using Parallels? |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | Yes, you can set up KARMA Scene changes to change on the next beat, or the next bar, or wait 2 bars or 4 bars. The parameter is named "Scene Change Quantize Window" and it's on the KARMA > GE RTP / Scenes > Scenes tab (in a combi). Sadly, this is not used in many of the combis (which are set to a 16th note, the smallest window), because many of these combis are ported from earlier Korg products, and I did not add this feature until KARMA 2.1 I believe. I tried to get Korg to change all combis, when working on the Kronos Voicing, to use 1 Bar as it's the most useful, but I only successfully got some of the ones that I or my programmer Paul Osborn originally did changed over. I wish the people at Korg understood the benefit of this setting. |
Of course, having said that, the following two threads show why you would want the Scene Quantize Window set to a 16th, for rapid scene changes with a single module:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=71514
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=71985
Really a powerful interactive phrase-sequencer that way. So probably most combis should be set to 1 Bar, but programs are good with a 16th in many cases. Anyway, now that you all know the parameter is there, you can set it however you prefer.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| addy73 wrote: | | If I choose Karma would you recommend that I create the pattern in my DAW and import them into the Karma software or would it be just as easy to create from scratch INSIDE Karma. Is it easy to create the patterns inside Karma that include velocity settings etc... Also, what is the longest a pattern can be in Karma? |
A KARMA Drum Pattern includes 3 64 step patterns that can run and loop independently. They can also be linked to provide longer patterns. So if you link all 3, you could have 192 steps. But it's also important to note that even with 64 step patterns, using the Phase Page options of restarting the patterns at various times, you can create the illusion of a much longer pattern, with a change-up at the end of 8 or 16 bars for example.
For drum grooves, it's pretty easy to import .MID phrases and turn them into GEs. But if you're used to working with step sequencer/drum grids, programming from scratch is also possible. I would not say it's the easiest thing in the world, because KARMA has so many options and it does require some learning to get the best results. But the way it is set up, it is pretty easy to import a drum pattern and have it instantly turned into a GE. There's a very thorough tutorial included on how to do that...
| Quote: | | Finally - will Karma be able to communicate with the Kronos if I run in on a MAC using Parallels? |
Yes, although sometimes the timing is not as tight as it would be in a standard Windows or Mac environment. I've used it that way for testing purposes...
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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addy73
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks again Steven! |
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