Korg Forums

[Jonbeinfinitbeats]

I just got my Kronos earlier this month and can't figure out how to use the vocoder...

[danatkorg]

[lotty1]

[Mike Conway]

You can follow the steps from this old

OASYS video


On Kronos, that same program is USER A127 "Vocoder (Mic Input 1)"

[pfrocha]

Check out this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT7llSHfYb8

[Ojustaboo]

Must have a play, looks like fun.

Trouble is, I have my speakers roughly to the right and left of my Kronos at 45 degrees, pointing towards my ears.

I can see me getting into a feed back loop.

Maybe my headphones and mic is the way to go.

[jeremykeys]

Definitely use headphones when recording vocoder. Unfortunately. it's really hard to hear what you are doing live with a vocoder wirhout headphones. Your natural voice tends to drown out the effect.
That's just the way it is. You always hear you natural voice through your head louder than you do through speakers unless you have a seriously good monitor system that's maximized for zero feedback and can go to deafening levels.
The average person simply doesn't have that kind of pro equipment.
In ear monitors would be best in my humble opinion.
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[xmlguy]

You normally can't get feedback through a vocoder, at least not unless you intentionally bypass some of your voice around the vocode section of the vocoder. A vocoder uses the frequency band levels of your voice to control the frequency band levels of the synthesizer notes you play as the carrier. Your voice is entirely stripped in the process.

It's often better not to sing into the mic when vocoding but instead to speak or whisper into the mic with exaggerated syllables. The pitch of your voice doesn't make it through. In that video, one of the major benefits of the vocoder is demonstrated by not passing his singing through the vocoder, but unfortunately, it still escapes into the mic of the video cam. :-O It can be a professional hazard for some, ahem, vocalists, ahem, to let their voice be heard above the vocoder level, when they think the audience only hears the vocoding part. Karaoke has its place and all, but that may not be the intent of the person using the vocoder. It's a fun effect, however it can take quite a bit of practice and skill to do well (and not necessarily singing skill at all), particularly if you want the audience to be able to understand the words and not just hear a basic robotic sounding effect.

The dedicated vocoder sections of the Radias/R3/MkXL are more powerful than the vocoder FX of the workstations, but the differences may not be very important if you're just having fun or doing some basic covers of popular classic vocodes. I only mention this in case you want to explore vocoding beyond what the vocoder FX in the workstations can do. There are also lots of other kinds of vocal effects that are frequently confused for vocoding, like talkboxes, harmonizers, pitch correction (autotune), vocal synthesis, and vocal mastering FX. They are all fun to learn and explore for their different characteristics, regardless of how controversial they may be to various listeners.

[jeremykeys]

I;m hoping to get into using the vocoder with a choir sound as well as an unaffected choir sound. It's just an idea that I have had in my head for a while now. I realize that it won't sound like a real choir but, well, since I can't afford to hire a real one, I'll fake a bad one!
My only problem is that I also sing in the band and this pretty much means I need 2 microphones. One for the vocoder and one for actually singing.
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[xmlguy]

[Ojustaboo]

OK, I've invested in a mic, I need a little advice please, hope its OK to post in this thread as its about getting the Kronos vocoder working, but its more how to use a mixing desk

I take on board what jeremykeys says about recording with headphones, but when I watch the example of the guy on the Oasis, he seems to be able to get the effects heard without headphones.

I'm obviously not expecting for it to be perfect without headphones, I expect my voice to drown it out a bit, but I'm struggling.

Just bought myself the Shure PG58 mic.

If I plug it into the Kronos mic port with the switch set to mic and follow the parameter guide instructions to set the levels, I'm finding the levels seem too low (or of course it could be that I'm not used to mics/singing and I'm not speaking etc loud enough)

I usually have my Kronos volume set to the middle, my main mix on the mixing desk set to the middle and I adjust the volume using the Kronos Level on the mixing desk.

Usually for most sounds this is a little bellow the middle, some sounds I have to turn it quite a way below the middle, no sound requires me to go past the middle.

Setting up the Kronos using my mic plugged into the Kronos and set up as per the manual, I'm having to set both the volume on the Kronos and the Kronos level on the mixer to 3/4 or more.

Obviously this scares me as if I turn the vocoder off, select another sound etc without adjusting, it's going to be very very loud. Even by doing this, it still seems fairly quiet compared to playing the sound at normal volume settings without the vocoder.

So I had a play.

I have NI Komplete Ultimate and having the mic, gave me a chance to play with "The Mouth"

I had great fun with this

I have a Mackie 802-vlz3 mixer. I am no expert at all when it comes to mixers. I simply got it so that I could play my Kronos and PC at the same time and route my Kronos back to my PC.

Manuals here

http://www.mackie.com/products/802vlz3/pdf/802VLZ3_OM.pdf

I was recommended this one on the Cubase forum and it works superbly for what I want.

It has Alternative output ports and if you press the Mute button for any track, it automatically sends that track to the alternative outputs.

I have the alternative outputs connected to the inputs on my PC's audio interface (NI Komplete Audio 6) so whenever I want to record my Kronos to Cubase I simply press the mute button and it's sent to my PC.

Hope your still all with me

So I connect my mic to one of the XLR ports on my mixing desk, press the mute button, this sends the mic to my PC and it works superbly with "The Mouth" I can use it's vocoder functions, play along with the Kronos, hear perfectly my Kronos and the mouths vocoder effects, all clearly, all without excessive volume settings.

So I had a think.

I connected the AUX Send on my mixer to the mic 1 input on the Kronos and with my mic still connected to the mixer, simply used the aux send to route it to the Kronos.

I then went through the mic setup again as described on the Kronos parameter guide and this worked much much better.

It worked both if I had mic1 mic/line switches set to either mic or line (obviously having to adjust the mic1 volume depending on which I used).

I presume I should have it set to line doing it this way?, so that is what I chose.

It all seems to be working fine now and it allows me to leave all cables plugged in whether I'm using the mic on my PC or on the Kronos.

I just want to double check I'm doing it the best/correct way (there's not a better way to do this with my mixing desk).

Sorry for the length, I wanted to explain in detail exactly what I had done.

Many thanks

Joe

[SanderXpander]

I also use only one mic for vocoding and singing backings. In order to send my singing to the FOH as a separate line and use the same mic for vocoding, I did the following;

1. Route my mic into input 1
2. Go to the global audio settings and route the mic back out to output 1 (or 2, or 3, or 4).
3. In my vocoding programs and combis, tick the "bypass global settings" in the audio tab and make adjustments for vocoding. I have my vocoding go out L/R as a keyboard sound but you could send it out to the vocal port I guess.

The only "weird" result is that my vocals go to the FOH as line level, so the sound company uses a DI. Works really well for me.

[jeremykeys]

It sounds to me like you are doing everything fine. I could be wrong about feedback too. The more I think about it. The speakers aren't actually putting out what goes into your mic. I guess I just tend to be cautious. My ears are pretty much worn out from all the years of loud playing so I avoid feedback at all costs.
I've also been thinking about using just one mic and running it through my Kronos. I'm already only sending one line to the FOH board. FOH means Front Of House just in case you didn't know. That's the one for the P,A. I have a powered mixer for my monitor that gets my Kronos, guitar and vocal. I have my own custom built cabinet for my monitor.
I use the main power for my speaker and send a monitor mix to the FOH. I can always adjust levels for whatever I need going to either mix. If the house sound man says something is too loud or quiet, I can adjust it at my end and always have my sound exactly the way I want it.

Back in the 90's my band opened up for Peter Frampton in Zurich and for some reason, their monitor guy decided to totally mess up our stage sound. We had our own house sound man so the audience heard us the way we were supposed to sound. On stage it was another thing completely. I had my own keyboard amp so at least I could always hear what I was playing but as far as my monitor went it just kept changing. One minute it was SCREAMING guitar, the next, kick drum, then something else. This went on and on throughout our whole set and everybody in the band had the same crap happening. Fortunately we were good enough; and professional enough to not let it affect our playing.

I've been on both sides of the stage so I've learned that it is very important to be in total control of your stage sound. You should always trust the sound man but you also have to remember; he might not like keyboards and he could be deaf! Buy him a beer. It will always help him do a better job for you personally!
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[Nippess]

I have been experimenting with the vocoder also, referring to the Parameter Guide (and screwing my eyes up), also the Help menu. When these list the steps for using the vocoder with mic. input, it lists 7 steps; could someone please explain to me how to do step 7 (route a synth sound into the vocoder effect)?
_________________
Korg Kronos 61 (1st female UK owner??); Casio WK1200; Fender Newporter Acoustic Guitar.
Previously loved Yamaha SY77, Roland SH101, and other various musical instruments!

www.trainwithkaren.co.uk

www.parkside-therapy.co.uk

[SanderXpander]

I think the easiest would be to just start with U-A127 and change its synth sound. Or copy an oscillator from another patch.