Korg Forums

[ghostly neutrino]

Am not new to Korg or to synthesis, owned an MS10 30 some years ago and made some swell and savory use of it, but I am new to a technical understanding of signal flow and subtractive synthesis.

With my MS10 my approach was entirely intuitive and I loved treating it like a wondrous "black box."

I rekindled my passion for synthesizer about a year ago, acquired a mini MS20, recently, and am hoping to gain a more technical understanding of how it works and how I can make it do what I want it do.

Trouble is the retro manual is as dry as bone and despite how hard I try to understand the flow charts of the patch cord area, it eludes my understanding.

Has Korg or anyone put together a manual to specifically understand what these interfaces mean (its pretty ridiculous but I don't even know what some of the acronyms mean -- the printed descript for the "Total" patch makes no sense --

Can anyone help? I know you tube has some interesting vids on the mini, but almost all of them are way over my head. I am still learning. Like, how many LFOS does the mini have. And why don't they just call it an LFO. And by the way --- what really is the function of an LFO?

Am trying to piece all these pieces together into a satisfying whole, but it seems like the electrical engineering terms - and cryptograms - preclude such an understanding.
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no cymbals where none intended

[roblabs]

I will give you a few resources and a brief word or two, but there are others on this thread who can provide immeasurable help - its a fantastic community and I'm sure you will learn much here.

First, re: the LFO. You use this as a modulation source. LFO is a separate oscillator that you can direct to the filter, VCOs, Pitch...Some synths have LFOs that have various waveforms and different amounts of rate...there are some that can pass into the audible range so you can thicken up sounds, etc.

Anyway, I would check out Marc Doty on youtube. He provides amazing clear demonstrations and explanations of analog gear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNZpzy8tpw0&list=PLrDD4XvJ3Zt4vbCDelSL1fKdoaPbNXR35

Next, I would look into a Korg DS-10+. Its a synth/drummachine for the Nintendo DS. It used to be cheap, amazingly so ($20USD!!!!), and for the price its insane would you get for it: 2 independent synth voices, each with 2 OSCs, Kaoss Pads, and Patchbays, a 4 voice fully programmable drum machine, and a mixer and effect section. Even if you don't pick one up, check out these tutorial videos on it. No doubt it will remind you of the flow of the MS20P: http://www.korgds10synthesizer.com/htm/tutorials.htm


Finally, there are many patches available online that you can check out, particularly for the ms20. Study these, especially the instrument recreations like violin, piano, strings, etc. Since most people are familiar with at least a few of these instruments, you can compare the settings on the ms20 to the sound of the instrument you're emulating. For instance, why does the guitar sound the way it does?....a short attack envelope. What OSC waveform is best for a flute or clarinet?...the square, and you will start to learn that adjusting the width of it will provide more reedy, nasally, or deeper sounds. Things like this will help teach you formulas for creating certain stock sounds, and then from there you can experiment and note how other areas like the patchbay of the ms20 can lead you to more interesting sounds and timbres.

Hope that helps you in some way...

[richbeemPOW]

Hi ghostly,

First, the LFO, or modulation generator, is what you use to apply modulation, in the most frequent cases, to the pitch of the oscillators, the hP filter and the LP filter. There is one lfo on the ms20, where you can change speed (or rate) and waveform. The ms20 is prepatched with triangle wave directly to pitch, hp filt, and lp filter. Thats why the first row of knobs MG/t.EXT is named like that, basically, they are modulating respectively pitch hp filter and lp filter.

If nothing is plugged into T?EXT on the patch panel, then the modulation generator directly affects these three things when you move the MG TEXT knobs.

But when something is plugged into MG TEXT, then that will control pitch, hp filter, or lp filter, whichever you choose.


To try it out, move the modulation generator to about 5 so you know there is reasonably fast modulation going on, with the waveform of the MG set to triangle, or in the middle (pointing towards the ceiling). Move the highpass filter down a bit, and the lowpass filter up a bit, and both their resonance (or peak) to about 5 as well, so you can really hear the effect. Then, move the MG TEXT knobs up, you will hear the filters (or pitch) being modulated at the chosen speed.

You could also plug the MOD wheel into T.EXT, now the mod wheel will control the filters up to the Point chosen by the MG TEXT knobs.

Have fun, i cant touch on everything, theres a lot to understand but if you have any other questions dont hesitate.
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KORG ELECTRIBE ESX, MS20 mini, MOOG EP3 PEDAL, ROLAND TR-8

[ghostly neutrino]

roblabs and richbeamPOW, many thanks for your very helpful posts. I didn't know about the Doty youtube videos, am grateful for being pointed in their direction. Good stuff.

Thanks for the MG T ext clarification and guidance/exercise. This is exactly what I am in need of: a coherence as to what does what specifically. One thing that makes a surface sense with the ms20 layout, well to a point, is the physical profile and descript of the knobs; I can presume that they are internally patched, such as the respective cutoff fms having an influence on the filters. But as you probably well know it is very easy to get lost in twiddling knobs and applying physical patches when exploring this synth, such that what specifically subserves what gets muddled. This my dilemma: I am given to the complexity of sound creation, but have very little chops right now knowing how I got there and why "this" made "this" happen and how to refine or make it happen by a more intimate understanding of signal flow.

I am not clear as to why it is the case that the " ms20 is prepatched with triangle wave directly to pitch, hp filt and lp filter", though. That LFO/ modulation generator wave form symbols confuse me.

Isn't true that the frequency modulation mg/t ext and eg1 ext are also LFOs - or am I misunderstanding this concept?

I picked up a book on synth programming, but found it only marginally useful. There were examples of how to edit, but the synth examples were not simpatico with the MS 20 display and physicality. It had a chapter on LFOs, but noted that synths can have a discrete LFO for VCO< VCF, and VCA. In fact, it was an operational presumption. Did little good for my basic understanding of the MS20.

Can either of you or anyone recommend a programming book that would be more in line with the analog features of the MS20?

Finally, many thanks for the DS 10 mention. This is another thing I hope to glean from you fine folks: what accessory goodies can enhance the complexity of textures and rhythm. I currently have a KORG delay monotron that makes for good little filigree emphatics and a Ruin drone synth. The latter is of the DIY bent circuit genre. It's quite fun and mysterious.
Had thoughts about eventually picking up a Kaosillator, but budget and space will not allow the big big version. Any recommendations with the other variations within the line, or would it be redundant if I managed to get a DS10?
Thanks for you very genial help! Much obliged.
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no cymbals where none intended

[el_hombre]

An analog step sequencer might be fun for messing with rhythms and stuff. They can be a bit pricey though.

[roblabs]

[roblabs]

And regarding the DS10, yes, I think its completely worth it, assuming you already own a Nintendo DS. It used to be that you could get it very cheap (10-20USD). Now its risen, I saw it for 50USD the other day. Keep in mind there are two versions, the DS10 and the DS10+, and + version that I'm referring to. The original version is cheaper, yes, but it really lacks some key features that the + version has.

The reason why I think its so valuable is that its a true music production tool and a useful learning device. You can experiment with many things, all within one small unit. As such, you won't get bogged down thinking about what musical tools and elements to use, since everything is condensed into 2 touch screens. You're free to experiment with many parameters, all in real time. There's several ways to input notes - on screen keys, Kaoss pad, and sequencer. Additionally you have the drum sequencer to work with, too. And since its programmable in the same way as the two mono synths, you can actually use the 4 drum voices as additional synths, effects, or whatever else if you don't want to dedicate them all to drums.

The DS10+ does have its limitations, obviously, but I like to think that they only push you to be more creative with it. And since the layout of the synth parameters is similar to the MS20's, I think you can actually translate many patches between the two - the only thing is that the ds10's patchbay is much smaller than the ms20's.

Overall I highly recommend it and think you will find it very useful down the line.

[ghostly neutrino]

[Citizen Klaus]

[mmarsh]

If you are willing to use a computer to sequence, then the possibilities are larger. Nodal is very interesting for generative stuff and Numerology (Mac specific) is also very interesting: it's a modular sequencer with all the word modular implies. Both are very deep and great fun.