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Triton Rack Factory Preload and EXB load questions
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Triton Rack Factory Preload and EXB load questions Reply with quote

Hi -

I'd be grateful for help on the following regarding the Triton Rack. I own one and am finally beginning to configure it, but am confused with some issues:

1. Is it the case that the Triton Rack Preload Data loads four banks of programs and Combis - A-D? Is this more than on the Triton Studio?


2. So are its Programs and Combi's the same as those in the Triton-Studio?


3. Anyone know where I could find a document listing the Triton Data - including a list of Factory Programs and Combis - can't find one anywhere, including on Korg web site Support/Documentation


4. I have the EXB 6/7 Orchestral boards but its Factory Preload Disk loads the orchestral programs and combis into internal banks C and D - apparently overwriting the Triton Rack's Factory programs (if there are factory programs in banks C & D?).


5. Can I load the EXB 6/7 programs and combos into other banks - are those EXB banks available? How can I load the EXB 6/7 Program and Combi's into those - the Manual and EXB Board installation documentation provides no details on how to do this.



6. Will EXB 6/7 Combis loaded onto the Triton Rack EXB banks retain the same integrity as if loaded onto internal banks C and D?


I'm about to proceed into doing a lot of this now but it'll be a good week before I gain some clarity (have to download all the factory preload data, install boards, ...). but any clarity on the points above would be very appreciated.


Sharp - just to print out that the Triton Rack Download section of this web site does not contain the factory preload data for the Triton Rack. Would be useful to have that there.


Cheers,
Kevin.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know by heart the exact number of banks of the programs and combi banks of a Triton / Triton Rack.

However, I suggest you use PCG Tools (free), to manage all your PCG files. Also you can easily (without even owning the synth), the content of program/combi banks and copy back/forth (at least from the same model).

Check the link in my signature below.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michael -

Thanks for that. Alas, as I mentioned before, I use a Mac for music and my laptop is only an Asus Atom using XP and alas PCGTools doesn't run properly on it (menus do not render and once they drop and you move the mouse over them they disappear - as if the mouse is an eraser. And - the application takes perhaps 10 minutes for each individual action to happen Sad ). Amazing utility you've drafted, but alas not for WinXP !!


Cheers,
Kevin.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Hi Michael -

Thanks for that. Alas, as I mentioned before, I use a Mac for music and my laptop is only an Asus Atom using XP and alas PCGTools doesn't run properly on it (menus do not render and once they drop and you move the mouse over them they disappear - as if the mouse is an eraser. And - the application takes perhaps 10 minutes for each individual action to happen Sad ). Amazing utility you've drafted, but alas not for WinXP !!


Cheers,
Kevin.


Yes I remember now (sorry I didn't watch the name).

It's good for Windows XP (have many users for it), but maybe your laptop has too less memory or a slow processor maybe?

Remember that a Kronos PCG file of 55 MB takes more space (like 60-80 MB) for all internal administration.

However, it's very hard for me to check exactly what is going on, sorry for that.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Michael - i accept my computer is slow, but the application isn't running fully on XP. I'm at Service Pack 3, all patches applied, but the menu rendering isn't working correctly as mentioned above.


On the main points of my post - any takers on any of the points?

Thanks in advance,
Kevin.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Thanks Michael - i accept my computer is slow, but the application isn't running fully on XP. I'm at Service Pack 3, all patches applied, but the menu rendering isn't working correctly as mentioned above.


On the main points of my post - any takers on any of the points?

Thanks in advance,
Kevin.


Sorry I didn't want to hijack this thread ... I put your question in a general forum; hopefully I get some useful information there.



For readers: Please check/answer the questions in the original post above.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem Mickel (apologies for mis-spelling your name earlier).

But I'll post again here just to reorientate the thread - I'm in genuine need of some advice / guidance from Triton / Triton Rack owners on the questions in the first post above.
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I answered all questions in the mail you sent; hopefully they cover or help your questions above too?
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for your comprehensive email. I will reply to you when I understand it ( Smile ) - your software is sophisticated.

However - I do not believe it does what I need; and alas the answer is "No" - the answers to my questions above have not been forthcoming.

Actually - I was not going to say anything but you have prodded it out of me - and I'm going to be a little bit controversial here - but I'm actually quite surprised at the lack of knowledge and understanding of Triton users of the Triton architecture and capabilities, especially when it comes to using Disk Mode and memory banks. Seemingly nobody knows the answers to my questions; despite more than 150 views of the thread.

In any case - the fundamental issue I have is - I wish to load the Factory Preload Programs and Combi's from a Triton Le onto my Triton Rack, into different banks than Int A and B; and have the Combi's point to the new location where the LE Programs are stored.

For example, if I load the LE programs into EXB-A and EXB-B; and then load the Combi's into EXB-A and EXB-B - will the Combi's play back the LE programs in the EXB Program Banks, or will they reference the Triton Rack Int-A and Int-B Factory Programs?

I suspect the latter.

Hence - an amazing new feature on your software which I mentioned in my email to you but not sure you picked up on - it would be fantastic to have a "Program Re-Map" Combi feature in your software where I could, en-masse, tell a combi to remap all of its programs on a Per-Bank basis.

In the case of my example above - it'd be great to be able to take the Triton LE Combi File and remap it's Int-A programs to EXB-A programs. And indeed, to be able to remap any which way, for example, re-map Int-A programs to Int-C programs in the case I'd like to load the LE Preload Int-A programs into my Triton Rack Int-C bank.


The biggest issue in trying to use the legacy of Triton Combi's from the various Tritons is the program pointings within the factory Combi's. They always point to Int-A and Int-B, meaning that if you wish to use Triton LE or Studio Combi's on the Triton Rack, you must replace the programs in Int-A and Int-B with the programs from those of the other Tritons, which then screws up the Triton-Rack's own Combi's !

The Triton Rack in particular has enough Program and Combi banks to house the combined programs and Combi's of all three of the Triton Rack, Triton LE and Triton Studio; but the Combi's don't work - their program references / pointings need to be remapped to the new Program bank locations.

Could you implement this in PCG Tools? to me, it would be the single most important feature of all.

Kevin.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think the remapping is something that is not necessary at all.
I hope I understand your story above, so let me try to give an example how to copy everything.

What you want is: -
Copy program bank I-A from the LE to program bank EXB-A of your Rack.
Copy combi bank I-A from the LE to combi bank EXB-A of your Rack.
Assuming combi bank I-A from the LE refers to programs of program bank I-A from the LE.

To make it easy, I only use 1 program/combi bank.

This means at the end you will have 4 banks in your Rack:
- program bank INT-A, containing the original (unchanged) programs of your Rack
- combi bank INT-A, containing the original (unchanged) combis of your Rack.
- program bank EXB-A, containing the LE programs
- combi bank EXB-A, containing the LE combis, referencing to programs of program bank EXB-A.

First make a PCG file of your Rack, we call this PCG file PCG_Rack. Make a backup.

Then, you need to make sure all PCG files are from the same model, Rack in this case (target model). To do this:
- Make a PCG file of your LE, we call this PCG file PCG_LE
- Load this PCG file in your Rack (thus overwriting the banks, so make sure file PCG_Rack is backed up safely).
- Save this PCG file as file PCG_LE_Rack (meaning containting the LE programs/combis but in Rack format).

Now we are going to copy the programs/combis:
- Load both files PCG_LE and PCG_LE_Rack into PCG Tools.
- Copy all programs from program bank INT-A from PCG_LE_Rack
- Paste these programs in bank EXB-A in PCG_Rack
- Copy all combis from program bank INT-A from PCG_LE_Rack
- Paste these combis in bank EXB_A in PCG Rack

In case some programs are 100% equal, the combis will possibly refer to program banks INT-A instead of EXB_A, and the duplicate programs will not be pasted ... this saves you some locations.

Of course the same scenario hold if you want to copy 2 program banks and 2 combi banks, but doing everything for both banks instead of bank A only.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michel -

thanks for your reply. Amazing insight you have.

Alas - I do not own an LE, or a Studio. Just the rack. I downloaded the LE and Studio programs and Combi's from this website download section. So I can't do what you suggest. The only way is 1) manually remap every Combi Sad or have a software utility that remaps.

I alos own a Korg Karma, so I'll have a think about your solution and see if I can do it on that. But I was thinking of a general solution for everyone, not just for me.


I'm probably 10 years too late - interest in Triton is minimal these days ( I like to adopt 'mature' technologies after they have been discontinued, and 'concentrate' the very best programs, performances, combis, ... it offers a unique 'encapsulation' of the legacy of programming for a given technology, with extremely exciting performance and composition possibilities. Hence I'm trying to precipitate out the very best programs and combis from all available Tritons onto one rack.


So a call to Korg:

Please - release a plugin called O1W / Trinity / Triton Legacy !!!
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks however you don't need an LE or Studio, assuming you can load PCG files from the LE or Studio in your Rack. I think that's possible (otherwise copying them has no use either).

Changed workflow:
- Save PCG file from your rack to Rack_org.pcg
- Load PCG file from the LE in your Rack and resave it to Rack_le.pcg ... it will be automatically converted (assuming you can load the LE file in your rack)
- Load PCG file from the Studio in your Rack and resave it to Rack_studio.pcg
- Repeat it for every PCG file you want to use
- Load all PCG files (all in Rack format) in PCG Tools
- Make a copy of Rack_org.pcg and call it e.g. Rack_final.pcg
- Copy & paste the way you want (remapping is done automatically when pasting) to Rack_final.pcg
- Load Rack_final.pcg into the Rack

Btw, I admire your way of using 'proofed'technology and it probably saves a lot of time.


Kevin Nolan wrote:
Hi Michel -

thanks for your reply. Amazing insight you have.

Alas - I do not own an LE, or a Studio. Just the rack. I downloaded the LE and Studio programs and Combi's from this website download section. So I can't do what you suggest. The only way is 1) manually remap every Combi Sad or have a software utility that remaps.

I alos own a Korg Karma, so I'll have a think about your solution and see if I can do it on that. But I was thinking of a general solution for everyone, not just for me.


I'm probably 10 years too late - interest in Triton is minimal these days ( I like to adopt 'mature' technologies after they have been discontinued, and 'concentrate' the very best programs, performances, combis, ... it offers a unique 'encapsulation' of the legacy of programming for a given technology, with extremely exciting performance and composition possibilities. Hence I'm trying to precipitate out the very best programs and combis from all available Tritons onto one rack.


So a call to Korg:

Please - release a plugin called O1W / Trinity / Triton Legacy !!!

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michel -

I was about to reply again as I misunderstood you 2 posts above - and now believe I understand it.

So by copying banks in PCG tools the way you describe, are you saying that the remapping is indeed done?

The line from 2 posts yo usay:

"In case some programs are 100% equal, the combis will possibly refer to program banks INT-A instead of EXB_A, and the duplicate programs will not be pasted ... this saves you some locations. "


so are you saying that PCG tools, if it identifies an Int program identical to an EXB program used in an EXB combi (as in your example), it will simply refer to the Int program, and not bother reprogramming?

If I understand you correctly, you have just saved me potentially weeks of manual remapping (though I have a very old PC and need a better one to do this). But this is an amazing feature of PCG Tools that I recommend you promote more - it enables Triton / Karma users to access a plethora of combi's without having to replace their Int-A and Int-B factory preload combis.


Thank's most sincerely for your amazing expertise, time and insight - really appreciated.

Best regards,
Kevin.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the remapping is done ALWAYS. And if an existing program (in the destination) PCG file is already there a program is not pasted, and combis making use of that uncopied program are then remapped to the existing program.

Programs which are not already in the target PCG file are pasted and combis are remapped to the newly pasted.

The nice thing is: it doesn't matter if you first copy the programs and then copy the combis, because all references are kept until the copy/paste is finished.

The only 'disadvantage' is that it cannot copy directly from a Karma/LE to Triton PCG file, but 'resaving' all PCG files once is not such a big deal.

I'm intending to make some videos about it sometime ... but the problem is: I don't have much time Sad.

it's all in the manual but the manual is quite extensive Smile.
However, there are lots of examples, because with some settings you might change some characteristics while copying so maybe you should take a look at it first.
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michel -

I am now VERY excited. Cannot wait to house the combined programs and Combi's of the Triton Rack, Studio and LE onto this Triton Rack. I realise there will be many duplicates, but it'll still be a potent sound source. The Rack also has a MOSS board, PCM 06/07 (Orchestral) and 96MB RAM (to house Dan Phillips / Sharp's "Emulator 2 Shakuhachi ) and will work in tandem with a Korg Karma also with MOSS board and Vintage EXB board. Overall, a very useful performance / composition environment (amongst other synths and modules too).


But your software has enabled this combined Triton resource to happen - so thanks most sincerely
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