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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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 Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: |
I don't have the Berlin but an equal amount of people have said they really like it. The width of tuning is a very personal thing.
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My complaint isn't the width of tuning. I mean there are notes actually out of tune when they were originally sampled. It's not an arbitrary preference, it's a legitimate badly sampled note.
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Ottawa58
Full Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Posts: 182
Location: Ottawa Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: Policy Issues |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | Dan, Rich and up to some extent Jack Hotop and Stephen Kay who have all worked for or done work for Korg as a rule don't comment on matters of policy. My best guess is that they are not allowed to do so or it would be considered very bad form. So apparently this is the official line.
I don't have the Berlin but an equal amount of people have said they really like it. The width of tuning is a very personal thing.
I have had mixed experiences with the local Korg distributor as well, so I do underscore your point about the international community. |
If the Korg reps on here are not allowed to comment on policy issues (which I can understand), then I go back to my original statement. People should write to Korg headquarters to voice their concerns with the library transfer policy. Having said this, I thank the Korg reps on here sincerely for their assistance with technical issues. |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| enigmahack wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: |
I don't have the Berlin but an equal amount of people have said they really like it. The width of tuning is a very personal thing.
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My complaint isn't the width of tuning. I mean there are notes actually out of tune when they were originally sampled. It's not an arbitrary preference, it's a legitimate badly sampled note. |
Oh sorry the width was mentioned as well, I got confused. Have you tried the various versions within an SGX2 preset? |
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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | enigmahack wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: |
I don't have the Berlin but an equal amount of people have said they really like it. The width of tuning is a very personal thing.
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My complaint isn't the width of tuning. I mean there are notes actually out of tune when they were originally sampled. It's not an arbitrary preference, it's a legitimate badly sampled note. |
Oh sorry the width was mentioned as well, I got confused. Have you tried the various versions within an SGX2 preset? |
I didn't look through them extensively, but I'll have to check that out tonight.
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SanderXpander
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I just know there are stretched versions and pure versions. If it isn't actually the width but an offset, maybe that fixes something. And if it doesn't, it could be done with an EXs update similar to what has been done with the brass collection that had some ticks in it. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Sending complaints about library transferability |
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| Ottawa58 wrote: | | McHale wrote: | | Ottawa58 wrote: | | So if you feel strongly about this, and want to be heard, send a physical letter to Korg. Your chances of action are much better. |
In 99.99% of situations I'd agree with you. Korg is a little different because they have always had great support on user forums by people with authority.
-Mc |
. However, a couple of points that I see personally:
- This is an international forum with people from all over the world on it. I have sent two emails to Korg Canada, weeks ago, with simple questions as a new customer; and have received no reply - not even to say they received them and will respond. Others on this forum commented about the lack of email response.
- If there are Korg reps on this site, with authority, then why don't they weigh in on Korg's behalf on the library transfer issue? This is obviously a policy question bothering many customers. The silence is deafening. Has the issue been raised upstairs at Korg headquarters? Is the policy being looked at by Korg, or is the current policy final?
- Another point: the new Berlin grand certainly has received tons of hype and marketing from Korg. Yet, on this forum, some very good material has called into question something as fundamental as tuning. And several people have responded that the Berlin grand sounds off. Not just one person. Where's the Korg response? Is the tuning correct? Is it off on purpose?
Yes, there seems to be lots of support on technical issues like how the motherboard is set up, for example, or how to do something technically, - but very sparse information on policy issues that are important to so many people on this forum. |
I have my own small business and it would be very nice if all my emails got promptly and thoroughly answered. But I know from, experience, this is not realistic. If something is that important, I use the telephone and get a human on the phone.
and as you should know, company employees have to use some common sense business judgement before addressing a perception or an issue or an opinion on a Internet forum. If I don't like something, I don't spend my money on it or I get a refund if the case demands it.
I would not have even noticed the flaws ( C1 is another flaw, FYI) on the Berlin unless it was called out. And I have never played an acoustic grand that was 100% perfect. The German grand has flaw or 2. But I am not kicking it to the curb because its not ' perfect'.
I am not letting Korg completely off the hook since constructive feedback is always useful. But I think some perspective is useful on a keyboard forum. I have no problem waiting for Korg to address the Berlin with some kind of update patch , if thats possible.
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Policy Issues |
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| Ottawa58 wrote: | | If the Korg reps on here are not allowed to comment on policy issues (which I can understand), then I go back to my original statement. People should write to Korg headquarters to voice their concerns with the library transfer policy. Having said this, I thank the Korg reps on here sincerely for their assistance with technical issues. |
I didn't mean to put them on the spot or propose that they are here to answer officially on behalf of Korg. THEY ARE NOT. They are here because they love Korg as much as we do. They just HAPPEN to work for Korg and are here on their own time. As clarified above, they do NOT speak on policy issues until they are made public. If you wrote a letter to Korg, had it hand delivered by the Queen of England, and attached some flowers and chocolates, Korg wouldn't give a response either... until they are prepared to answer publicly as a matter of policy. I'm just happy they as well as Stephen Kay are here. They have helped me immensely and I do know that hour feedback is heard. Patience is the key.
If you'd like to formally complain to Korg about about any thing, these forums are not the place to do it. THAT is where the letter comes into play. Either way, if the decision is up for debate, I'm sure our comments here will be taken into consideration.
-Mc
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | If someone's Kronos goes on the fritz and the owner takes it in to an authorized service center ( yeah, I know, 100 mile drive) there is a fair chance the service center can arrange to replace the original purchased sample libs . |
Not just a fair chance - Korg will ABSOLUTELY continue to support all purchased libraries for that unit.
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sending complaints about library transferability |
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| Ottawa58 wrote: |
- If there are Korg reps on this site, with authority, then why don't they weigh in on Korg's behalf on the library transfer issue? This is obviously a policy question bothering many customers. The silence is deafening. |
Actually, I've answered the question on multiple occasions. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that a KRONOS is damaged so that the public ID changes, Korg absolutely will continue to support licenses for that user.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | If someone's Kronos goes on the fritz and the owner takes it in to an authorized service center ( yeah, I know, 100 mile drive) there is a fair chance the service center can arrange to replace the original purchased sample libs . |
Not just a fair chance - Korg will ABSOLUTELY continue to support all purchased libraries for that unit. |
Thanks for reminding us of this. Its good to be clear and unequivocal on the Internet. I am not a worry wart with my 2011 Kronos.
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Ottawa58
Full Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Posts: 182
Location: Ottawa Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: Letters |
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Like many things in life, we are agreeing; all from different perspectives.
My original suggestion to write, was simply to those who strongly disagreed with the Korg policy to the point where they felt it impeded their ability to upgrade to a K2. My point was that emails (and complaining on this forum) would not really get them any response on a policy issue. My point boiled down to the fact that written letters get more attention than emails. (My own emails have never been answered). I was an executive (now retired) at a large company that not only thought letters were more effective for 'eye time', but they actually had empirical data to show it.
Again, my own behaviour will be that if I like an EX that costs $50, I will buy it, understanding that it is a throw away. I will not spend $300.
Now, just to prove that I'm a newbie - here's a novice question. Since you can sample the Kronos itself, could you sample your favorite ex samples and save them with other names in another directory? |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| In theory yes. It would be a massive amount of work though, not to mention one of questionable ethics. And you have no access to SGX2 so you'd have to rebuild what you could of any SGX2 piano you'd try to copy. And reset any loop points in loop based samples. |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| enigmahack wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: | | enigmahack wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: |
I don't have the Berlin but an equal amount of people have said they really like it. The width of tuning is a very personal thing.
|
My complaint isn't the width of tuning. I mean there are notes actually out of tune when they were originally sampled. It's not an arbitrary preference, it's a legitimate badly sampled note. |
Oh sorry the width was mentioned as well, I got confused. Have you tried the various versions within an SGX2 preset? |
I didn't look through them extensively, but I'll have to check that out tonight. |
As others have noted, there are two different tunings provided in the Piano Types. Stretch-tuned Piano Types typically have an "s" suffix; these are the un-corrected tunings from the original piano, accurately reflecting the piano tech's tuning. Notes on these Piano Types will *certainly* be out of tune with equal temperament - that's the way that pianos are tuned! Those without an "s" suffix are tuned to equal temperament.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| danatkorg wrote: |
As others have noted, there are two different tunings provided in the Piano Types. Stretch-tuned Piano Types typically have an "s" suffix; these are the un-corrected tunings from the original piano, accurately reflecting the piano tech's tuning. Notes on these Piano Types will *certainly* be out of tune with equal temperament - that's the way that pianos are tuned! Those without an "s" suffix are tuned to equal temperament. |
I didn't realize about the S suffix suggesting the stretch tuning.
Once again though, that's not at all a problem for me. It's that the piano that was sampled had a couple of notes that were actually out of tune. I don't mean the whole stretch of keys, but a specific key was tuned poorly and then sampled.
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Korg Kronos 88 2, Korg Kronos 73, Kurzweil K2600S
Sound developer, custom sound designer and trainer/Kronos support - www.audora.ca for details! |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| enigmahack wrote: | | danatkorg wrote: |
As others have noted, there are two different tunings provided in the Piano Types. Stretch-tuned Piano Types typically have an "s" suffix; these are the un-corrected tunings from the original piano, accurately reflecting the piano tech's tuning. Notes on these Piano Types will *certainly* be out of tune with equal temperament - that's the way that pianos are tuned! Those without an "s" suffix are tuned to equal temperament. |
I didn't realize about the S suffix suggesting the stretch tuning.
Once again though, that's not at all a problem for me. It's that the piano that was sampled had a couple of notes that were actually out of tune. I don't mean the whole stretch of keys, but a specific key was tuned poorly and then sampled. |
But, only the "s" Piano Types will represent the original tuning.
What notes, specifically, concern you?
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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