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kronoSphere · Platinum Member Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 698

Absolutely not sarcastic. The honest professionnal people I know in some recording studio pay their license and they are right to do that. in the music business there is also somehow integrity. And I can't believe they are the lonely ones.
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analogaddict · Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 28

Ouch. This is very bad news. I'm doing a production next year and I'm definately going to buy a good string library. I was about to ask if any of you have experience in the string expansion libraries, but since the show is in another town the whole plan was to get another Kronos and have an A rig at the venue and a B rig set up for programming at home. No dice I guess, off to look for Kontakt libraries. if my Kronos would die on me, I need to be able to get an identical backup running in no more than a day, and this is the kind of stuff I won't deal with. Shocked

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SanderXpander · Platinum Member Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 7860

scottgblood · Full Member Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Posts: 119

GregC · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject:

ahutnick · Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2008 Posts: 378

No doubt there are plenty of people using pirated software which is of course a very bad thing. The thing is though is that pirated Korg Libraries are of no use to anybody unless they own a Kronos and there are way more people who own a computer than a Kronos. It would be nice if someone from Korg would respond to this thread but I highly doubt that will happen

GregC · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

I understand that Korg had to get their library business going in the first place, and that at this point protecting investements had to postpone all other thoughts and problems. BUT: Meanwhile there is a real market for all these libraries on many devices. But many willing customers, ready to buy, hesitate to do so for a good reason!

This customer base will simply never go past buying two or three libraries they urgently need from Korg (or from people selling via Korg), just because the risk of losing your paid software in the moment your hardware dies is just insane! I am definitely one of those who, even after spending hundreds of dollars, would probably have bought substantially more of these libraries, if I could be sure I can still use them in five years.

The present state of affairs, with people trying to get by as it is is, hoping their Kronos will be alive and kicking, is really fragile! If a user like in this thread loses several hundred bucks even by exchanging a warranty device, this is absolutely unacceptable from a custumer perspective! And it isn't much better if it happens out of warranty. Once the number of hardware problems would rise and people would be ripped off of their investments, the anger would rise and spread fast and could cost Korg a lot of well earned reputation and customers.

My trust in Korg is that they understand the urgency of this matter and really develop a solution both sides (Korg and customers) can live with. As long as they don't, I belong to those who will be extremely reluctant to invest into more library stuff from the Korg site: my risk has already become high enough as it is.

And frankly, I think that just ignoring the problem would be a very bad business decision from Korg, because in the future the income from soundware will become just as important as selling the hardware itself. The Kronos is a multipurpose system with many options, and it would just not make sense to limit that artificially.

Last thing:
A future workstation should just allow a simple solution, like swapping SSDs (within a case) from the outside, taking your SSD with all necessary libraries and protections to another device, plug it in, and start the other workstation with exactly your environment. This would allow pro musicians on big tours to use any Kronos, anywhere, with their sounds and settings. Wouldn't that be one of the big advantages of a software based workstation like the Kronos?
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GregC · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:16 pm Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Well, at least it's not my business to live with the underestimated consequences.

And I can do a lot of other things (spell: "software"!) with the many hundreds of dollars, which I alone have saved, and will save, by being quite a reluctant library buyer exactly due to this business model. Laughing

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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

SanderXpander · Platinum Member Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 7860

It's a shame that it's once again the legitimate buyer who is the victim of the fear of piracy.

Francois · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:20 pm Post subject:

What I suggested earlier does not increase nor decrease the risk of piracy. Getting the library authorised on the hard drive or a USB key doesn't mean illegal copies are going to start circulating.

If you authorise the hard drive via GLobal, things stay as they are now.

If you want to run the library on another Kronos, you'd have to download a stamp file on the key, but one generated for the public ID of that particular Kronos. So plugging the key on a third Kronos would not allow you to use the library. That way, you do not increase the risk of pirated version any more than what the current risk is.

I believe authorising a user to run a library on two Kronos would be fair. You get to use Kronos A and Kronos B, or you get to keep the library for a Kronos B bought after selling a Kronos A.

For my job, I run a fair amount of specialist software. There was a time where once a particular piece of software was installed on a computer, that was that, you could not install that software on another machine. Yet, today, most publishers will grant you two authorisations, one for a desktop, and one for a laptop. That way, you can work at home on your main computer, and on the road with your laptop.

Something along those lines for the Kronos (but not just for the Kronos, the paradigm works for other Korg software as well) would be fair IMHO.

Also, if I buy the new Korg iPad apps, I will be able to install them on two iPads or more, so long as I own these iPads, installing via my iTunes account. Why should it be any different with the Kronos?
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pedro5 · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:16 am Post subject:

Regarding library or software usage and author protection,the following example may already be known by many,but I shall mention it anyway.

Steinberg operate a licence method by using an usb key (dongle) for cubase and other software, which works quite well for most owners.
They don't operate the system themselves,but use a third party that takes care of the licences who have a shared data base with Steinberg,registered customer purchases etc.
Not sure how much Steinberg pay for this service,perhaps Korg & the library suppliers find it too expensive and have avoided that route.

The usb key data is maintained and updated via the third party web site,usually remotely,but has means for help/support in place,if things go wrong.
Several licences can be stored on each key and can be transferred for usage on any computer.

I usually use mine on a multi boot system on the same iMac (different osx etc) or on a second iMac whenever needed.
If ever the usb key breaks down,it can be "exchanged" by purchasing another and all the licences can be restored by arrangement.
Lost usb keys are another matter though,which can be awkward to rectify and would be subject to Steinberg's discretion.
Not sure how long a key will last for before the need to replace it,but at the moment they're at a reasonable cost.
My key is nearly 3 years old and is permanently on whenever the computer is booted etc.

I'm not really suggesting that Korg adopt this method in its entirety,but surely there is a way to satisfy the demand for better flexibility for library purchases.

Wonder what the library makers think about this.... ??

SanderXpander · Platinum Member Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 7860

Licensing to a USB key without being able to use it on another Kronos would be an exercise in futility. What could possibly be the benefit of that approach?

pedro5 · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:36 am Post subject:

The licence usb key would be plugged into the instrument.
This could help preserve bought libraries for use on another Kronos if ever it needs replacing or even on a second one at a different location etc.
Ownership of any instruments can be linked to registration that could be part of the licence,if it was decided to apply the condition.

Not an ideal solution obviously,I mentioned it as an example, there are other methods that would be a better option,like the ones already suggested elsewhere,including an onboard software licence as opposed to an usb key, but at the moment there aren't any.