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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: Comparison: Kronos Pianos + Nords |
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A simple compare I put together with all the Kronos pianos and a couple of Nords thrown in. So the first four are DARK versions of the various Kronos pianos and shouldn't be viewed as the single way these pianos sound by any measure. Anyone who has worked with the Kronos pianos knows there's a huge amount of tonal variation possible. The Nord's are pretty much straight up and the last Berlin Grand is closer to the standard version. For the first four Kronos pianos, I set up the Berlin to my liking and then switched piano types so the next three would have pretty much identical settings.
In order they are:
1. Berlin Dark Grand (velocity bias -065, velocity intensity +050)
2. Austrian Grand: Piano Type: Dark 3 s other settings same as Berlin above.
3. Japanese Grand: Piano Type: Dark 3 s other settings same as Berlin above.
4. German Grand: Piano Type: Dark 3 s other settings same as Berlin above.
5. Nord Italian Grand Lrg. Long Release ON; string resonance ON
6. Nord Grand Imperial Lrg. Long Release ON; string resonance ON
7. Berlin Grand SW2 U.C. (velocity bias -065, velocity intensity +050)
Simple phrase
Example #1
Una Corda example. Because only the Berlin Grand supports true una corda, you will only hear it on the first and last example. The others are there for reference.
Example #2 - una corda
Low range chords. Notice in the first example that even though the Berlin Grand is set to a Dark piano type, it offer very full range sound--the Japanese Grand in comparison remains dark. Note the pumping heard in the Nord examples.
Example #3
Forte
Example #4
Busch. _________________ Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
http://www.purgatorycreek.com |
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SanderXpander Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 7860
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Busch. I'm not equally enthused about all Kronos pianos, but even this brief listen helped me remember why I can't stand the Nord ones anymore |
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DennyC Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 938 Location: Tucson, Az
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting. It was very enjoyable and enlightening. _________________ Kronos 2 61, Wavestation A/D, Yamaha Genos and others. |
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levioter Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2011 Posts: 401
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting Busch !
It seems each Piano has its distinct sound even if I found the Nords brighter !
The Kronos ones sound pretty full !
However I noticed the Berlin Grand has a really strange noise when the notes are released !
Thanks again for your effort !
Cheers _________________ KORG KRONOS73 -- Minimoog Model-D -- KORG M1 -- M-AUDIO FastTrack C600 -- M-AUDIO AXIOM-25MK2 -- Roland Vdrum TD12KV |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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@Levioter: Don't know for sure what you refer to, but I recently got rid of strange release noise problems by checking the damper noise section, and kicking some seriously wrong factory patch settings out there.
Thanks for the comparison, Busch!
I still heavily dislike the Japanes grand EXs.
And since the Berlin the Nords are no longer a match even in band context IMHO. _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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SanderXpander Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 7860
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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My Nord always seemed a lot more 100Hz heavy than the Kronos, although I have to admit monitoring in stereo made an even bigger difference than switching pianos. |
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psionic311 Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comparison, Busch. I found this enlightening... I really like the Austrian. |
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PCFREE Platinum Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Just passing through...
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for an interesting comparison
I actually quite like the Japanese grand in the chord examples. I think there's good clarity in the bass notes
It goes to show how it's very much down to taste/personal opinion _________________ Kurzweil K2700, Korg Nautilus 61, Yamaha MODX6
....as we forgive those who synthesize against us!! |
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PCFREE Platinum Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Just passing through...
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Playing the Berlin demos, I find it doesn't appear to be as smooth at legato playing as the stock kronos pianos. Has anyone else found this? I can also hear it in the comparisons in the triplet sections. _________________ Kurzweil K2700, Korg Nautilus 61, Yamaha MODX6
....as we forgive those who synthesize against us!! |
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Dave Ferris
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 45 Location: Glendale, Ca.
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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Hi Busch. Yes, all the Kronos pianos sound good here. Always very thorough on your tests. Nice reharm on Nowhere Man btw.
I've definitely moved on from the Nord pianos after using them for over 3 years straight. When I played them at NAMM after an 8 month break, they sounded harsh and too bright.
However always thought the Nord Fazioli sounds best on chordal stuff, like on your example of "Turn Out the Stars". However trying to play single note lines for Jazz, coupled with the not so responsive Fatar action, was a study in frustration for this jazz guy.
When I *have* to use an electronic keyboard for piano, the CP4 is working out nicely - or as nice has things can be for not being an acoustic.
But would like to check out the new Berlin Grand on the Kronos 2. Problem is -I have a huge aversion going into a GC. _________________ http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris
2005 NY Steinway D |
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dfahrner Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 571 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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PCFREE wrote: | Playing the Berlin demos, I find it doesn't appear to be as smooth at legato playing as the stock kronos pianos. Has anyone else found this? I can also hear it in the comparisons in the triplet sections. |
I think that smoothness in legato playing is related not only to the Berlin samples and envelopes and to the EXi settings, but also to basic keyboard technique...Busch's Velocity Bias and Velocity Intensity settings were way different that what I had been using for my German Grand programs - I had both Bias and Intensity set to single-digit + values, and Release Time set to +15, which seemed to work well for my live playing...so it was hard to play smoothly (both volume- and note release-wise) with his settings on the Berlin, but I realized my settings didn't have anywhere near the dynamic range of a "real" piano...so I spent some time with it yesterday, and ended up with values in the -20s for Bias and +20s for Intensity for the German, and like -23 Bias, +18 Intensity, and +8 Release for the Berlin...and tried to control how long I held the keys down a little better, and that all made a big difference...of course, YMMV - you need to experiment with settings to see what works for you...I think the Berlin Grand (and Busch's posting) is going to make me a better piano player...
The other striking thing to me about Busch's examples was how good and "piano like" they all sounded, I could see using any of these (even the Nords!) in various situations...
df |
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benny ray Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 628
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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: K |
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Thanks for taking time to make the comparison and the Berlin Dark Grand has a nice jazz sound to my ears as I love trying to play jazz. Nice sounding piano and looking forward to playing some of these new Berlin Piano sounds. Best regards, Benny |
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thiagotgc
Joined: 15 Jan 2015 Posts: 47 Location: São Paulo
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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have good PCG editions of pianos to share? _________________ Korg Kronos 61
SSD1: 30GB
SSD2: 120GB
4GB RAM
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