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stratquebec · Junior Member Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 88

First, Im still with my Triton Le 61 that I love, but it's time to seriously think to upgrade.

I don't gig. I'm not a pro. I do my own stuff, alone, just for the pleasure of doing music.

I like to explore about any styles but I would say that Pop/Rock is what I do most. I'm trying to write good songs Very Happy

I have no problems writing bad ones!

Mostly do my stuff on DAWs like Logic and Cubase.
Guitar, Bass, Vocals, Drums, Percussion and Keys.

Ok. The Kronos seems absolutely amazing! A DAW within a keyboard I would say! Or vice versa! And I find it faster and easier to compose with my Triton Le than with DAWs, at least to get some inspiration and quickly record them.

When I compare both the PA3x or 4x against the Kronos, by listening to tutorials or web videos, it seems to my ears that the Kronos is overall a better sounding device. Arrangers seems to sound a little toy'ish or less "real".

But the arrangers like the PA3x, and now the 4x now seems to come close to the Kronos sound-wise so my question is: Why would one prefer a Pax3-4 over a Kronos? What are the advantages of an arranger over a Kronos? Please educate me!

Thanks in advance for your help and inputs.

Cheers!

Sam CA · Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject:

Think of arranger keyboards as preset-based machines. These presets are known as "Styles" which you can use to play a Chord progression in real time. If you're a song writer and would like some automatic accompaniment to help you with generating ideas, or if you just want to play a song on the fly without putting too much into it musically, then an Arranger keyboard will definitely give you a shortcut. It has a very weak sequencer compared to a DAW or other workstations, because that's not its primary function.

The very basic form of playing an arranger would be to control the Chord progression input with the left hand and use the right hand to play the melodic ideas. The left hand would give you a full automatic accompaniment. None of these arrangers sound better than Kronos. I own both and aside from a few Guitars, everything else sounds way better on Kronos. (To be expected). Arranger keyboard is a cool instrument if you want to singalong or entertain family and friends, but for more serious music production you should definitely consider a workstation.
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Sam

stratquebec · Junior Member Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 88

ok Sam CA. Thanks a lot. Now I know that the Kronos is the tool I need. And a good built-in sequencer is a must have to me so now the choice is obvious.

Thanks again!

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

worth · Platinum Member Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1097

Couple of advantages of arrangers over Kronos for a song writer

1. You can capture full musical ideas in any style of music with an appropriate accompaniment instantly and record it into the inbuilt fully featured sequencer. Kind of like a scratch pad but on steroids.
2. You can do multiple versions of the idea experimenting with different chord progressions . Key changes , break fills and tempo changes with full accompaniment in minutes .
3. Once your are happy with the structure of the song you can then do the usual workstation thing using the onboard sequencer to fully produce the song version you like best or using your daw but you will have a much more fleshed out starting point.
4. The korg arranger has DNC . Most Kronos owners wish it had DNC !!! In other words if you use real world sounds in your compositions the arranger wins all day against the Kronos in terms of playability of real world instruments .
5. Inspiration . If you ever run out of musical ideas start jamming with an arranger and see what happens ! As one musician to another I cannot over emphasise this advantage .
6. the major advantage is that the arranger , although comes with pre made styles is completely customisable . You can make your own styles or personalise existing ones or mix and match parts from the hundreds of styles on board to create interesting and unique arrangements . Think jazz horns on a on a rock groove or funk guitar on a ballad !!! You are only limited by your imagination .
7. Instant suggested performance set ups with sounds,effects already pre made that again can inspire but are still completely customisable.
8. You can flit seamlessly between playing arranger and using it as a straight non arranger keyboard/workstation (deep sound editing , sequencing , effects editing etc )so you keep most of the advantages and less of the disadvantages of a workstation .
9. The Kronos can do some of these functions kind of (think karma), but nowhere near as efficiently or sound humanistically as authentic as the arranger .
10. Convenience . As as song writer , being able to translate your musical ideas into a workable piece whilst the inspiration is still with you is the bug bare of all musicians . The arranger goes a long way into resolving this as described above .

Have a listen to this song created by Danny Mitchell on his Yamaha arranger http://youtu.be/HLJDoXrFUsw

Or this one http://youtu.be/G-p8GpmnPMQ

I could go on but that should be enough to think about . Of course the Kronos scores huge points on sound creation manipulation etc but as a song writer , into pop and rock you should balance out what you will be using the keyboard for primarily . For example what use is 9 synth engines to you that one good one can't do ? What makes a great song ? The best sounds possible or the best melody words and arrangement ? Not trying to stear you in any particular direction but just answering your question as fully and as honestly as I can.

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

Double post... sorry about that

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10402

Bald Eagle · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:41 am Post subject:

amit · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:49 am Post subject:

Both are similar and yet different tools for different applications and usage demands.

Many people compare kronos to a computer with DAW and a midi controller (which imo is not correct), a computer can sound better than anything, but rarely feel like an instrument.

You can also have the computer work as an arranger too using software (one man band, vArranger, omb etc).

however, Putting that aside, I would say, neither (arranger or workstation) can completely replace the other. The Best is to have both working together. If only one is the option, then definitely get your priorities sorted out.

Listed below are some main points:

Arranger :
Primarily Designed for Style based Workflow - Select a Style and it has pre-recorded accompaniment patterns (variations etc) that play together along with chord recognition. (you can create own styles etc) but is mainly meant for song performance.
In Single Man band situations , you would call for an arranger, where the most of the heavy lifting (playing secondary tracks like bass, accompaniments) the keyboard takes care of.

Workstation: Totally different workflow, it's usually got a sequencer (or use a DAW) and is more oriented on Sound Design and performing as an instrument as well as recording complete songs/scores, external tracks etc, There are a lot other things that are in there that facilitate endless creativity and ideas.

If you are primarily a Keyboard player (artist) then you would likely prefer a workstation to play along with band etc.
however if you are a songwriter, then an arranger would suit more. (both can work in all roles to a certain extent, it's when you want to dig deeper or do things they were't designed to do, is when they fall short and differences become apparent)

To me In a Nutshell it's a Perform/Songwriting (Arranger) vs Design/Instrument (workstation) thing.
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nitecrawler · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:51 am Post subject:

stratquebec · Junior Member Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 88

@ Bachus

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10402

stratquebec · Junior Member Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 88

Ok I've looked at a couple of youtube good videos and I see that the PAx3 between the Marco Parisi hands can do and sound like! ( Ya, I know, can do wonders with anything...)

Ok I have questions about styles:

- Is it easy to create our own styles from scratch?
- Is there some styles say, a la Pink floyd or something alike? If so how do they perform?