Moving from DAW to Workstation: Presales Questions (M3 v XF)

[Shakil]

JTR: " Are they (workstations) limited and do you compromise on features? Sure. But, as I said, I actually enjoy limitiations as they can keep you focused and, in some ways, very creative."

JTR, if you want the most limited workstation (most hard-wired workflow) among the three... get Fantom-G.

[Jive Talking Robot]

I actually took the Fantom for a spin @ the music store yesterday. I was quite impressed with their screen (a thing of beauty really)... but, alas, the Fantom just doesn't stir the ol' soul for me. I know that sounds silly, but very little about it motivates me to dig in and I am not crazy about their sonic pallet. I am certainly not anti-Roland or anything crazy like that, but for what ever reason their new gear just doesn't "click" with me (save for the V-Synth).

BTW, the Korg M3 they had at the store was broken. I sat down to play and the module would not generate sounds. We reset the OS, made sure all of the connections were plugged in, etc... but still no dice. Worse, they had no stock on it, so they couldn't unbox one for demo. So... they will call me when they get a new one in stock next week. The manager had no idea how long it sat there broken, as I was the only one to ever complain about it. It may be for the best, as the M3 they had was still the old OS. I did get some time on the XS as well (and the DSI Mopho Keyboard... what a fun little KB!).

For what it's worth, my MachineDrum is my go to "limited" sequencer... it is a blast to play actually, and it locks in tight w/ other gear. Best of all... no PC required to write a whole tracks. It's a ton of fun and I recommend anyone who likes XoX sequencing to try one out if you get the chance. I was actually thinking of pairing it with the MonoMachine when I got turned on to the Motif XS. and I relaized how much more useful a full workstation may be... so here I am, kicking workstation tires.

[Synthoid]

the M3 they had was still the old OS.

That's inexcusable!

The Xpanded M3 has been around for a long time now. Stores are supposed to upgrade their demos to the latest OS. I'd shop elsewhere.

[cello]

^ Good point there! What on earth are they thinking about not keeping a demo machine current (not to mention working... )!

Please don't let that put you off - stay focussed on what you're looking for; there's nothing you've said, one or the other, which suggests to me that the M3 is not the machine for you

[Jive Talking Robot]

LOL... yeah I agree with you both! Well, it was a Guitar Center, so sadly it wasn't shocking in the least (for those not in North America: GC is a big music store chain based in the US). The ONLY reason I went there is that they had both the M3 AND the XS (soon the XF). I live in the city of Chicago and you would think there would be a ton of music stores that carry keyboards. Nope. It's guitar center or you are SOL. All of our hip music stores are 99% guitar/bass, and the one's that aren't cater to DJ/Groovebox crowd.

I got there as the doors opened so I literally had the room to myself (I brought my daughter along as well - she is a wee one but extremly well behaved. She enjoyed the Roland Gaia and the Mopho though - it's fun to watch the instant audio feedback they get by adjusting synth parameters. She LOVES my Nord Lead 3!). So imagine my disappointment when the M3 - all shiny and blinky - didn't produce sound! WTF! Well, at least I got the Fantom out of my system.

Well, they took my number and were ordering a brand new one for the store... they will call me when it arrives.

BTW, they had EVERY flavor of Motif on display and ready to play... same with the Fantom. The poor old M3 was all by itself in the corner, broken. But it only made me want to play it more! Between this thread and S. Kay's videos, I am dying to check out the M3. I plan to dig in to the Seq and KARMA when the replacement unit arrives.

I did clock some time on the M50 though. Wow... Korg does a great job with big, lush synth sounds and evolving soundscapes. I logged time on the R3 to get an idea of the Radias engine... I loved it as well!

PS - The M3 looks pretty cool in person, I have to admit. Korg gets points for trying something different!

[Jive Talking Robot]

For others in the market for an M3 who happen to be reading the thread, I might as well not make it "all about me." I will edit the OP with these links, but, as this sucker has grown 6 pages long and contains a lot good info, I would like to share with other non M3 owners some great resources I have used to get me to this point.

Check out the Virtual M3 GUI here: http://www.karma-lab.com/m3/gui/m3vgui2.html

Check out the Karma Lab videos here: http://www.karma-lab.com/vp/klvp2.html?playID=42

Check out the manual as software downloads here (including the M3 editor - hat tip to cello!): http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=280

Check out various videos here : http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=280

Finally, check out this great M3 WIKI: http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-m3:start

Hope that helps!

[Synthoid]

Well, it was a Guitar Center,

Even more surprising... our GC here in lowly Lancaster, PA usually keeps up with OS upgrades.

[Jive Talking Robot]

Well, the only reason I think it was the old OS is that I couldn't find the Piano Roll in the Seq... when I asked about it, the guy said it was only available on the "expanded OS", so I assume they had a pre 2.0 unit?

The GC is Chicago is the smallest/least staffed GC I have ever been in, hands down (to be fair it is TINY as GCs go - they crammed it in the middle of the already dense Lincoln Park, Chicago). You can tell the KB department is the red headed stepchild of that store too. Their demo gear was a bit grimey... knob caps missing, dinged endbells, finger dirt and grit on the front panels, filmy keyboards, etc. Get some windex working people! The new stuff was all fine, but those workstations were beat to hell.

The crappy condition of the workstations aside, I did have a good time kicking the tires and window shopping, so it was still time well spent.

EDIT - While we are on the subject of old stock, I found this on the KARMA-Labs WIKI:

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-m3:ex ... to-2-gbyte

The original M3 (v2 upgrade) and "old production" XPanded M3 keyboards - e.g. M3-61 and M3-88 - are currently sold with a 256 Mbyte internal SD card and an external "Korg" branded USB stick containing a backup version of the XPanded OS version 2.00 and the EXPCM01, 02 and 03 sample sets. The OS is configured to only load EXPCM03 as default, but you can configure it to auto load all the other EXPCMxx files from the stick if you have the EXB-M 256 memory expansion.

If I am buying a new 61 key unit, is there any chance what-so-ever that I will get "old stock" w/ the 256 SD card, or should all of that been sold-through by now?

[apex]

I just wanted to post this over here since we've been talking about the effects on the Motif XS vs the m3....

Does it mean anything to anyone? I think it's a workaround to get around only having insert effects on 8 parts/effects.

This is posted over on the Motifator Site (XF Forum)

The XS/XF has 16 insert FX, but they must be allocated in pairs, which means you can ‘only’ use them on up to 8 tracks at a time.

By combining voice edit with song or pattern mode, you can create a mix setup with 8 parts, each part having a 2 element voice, and give each of the 16 elements its own insert effect.

Given that you can also split and layer elements individually within a voice, you can get extremely creative with this approach.

Df.

[Shakil]

df: "Given that you can also split and layer elements individually within a voice, you can get extremely creative with this approach. "

Hahaha.. that's a lot of work to make the XS/XF behave like Fantom-G.... [Edit]... well better than Fantom-G... since there are no EQs on each part on Fantom-G [/Edit]

Another idea on Motif XS and XF is to turn on/off the IFXs as you need them in the song, as long as you have them on on max of 8 parts at a time. So, you could have 8 different parts using the IFXs in different sections of your song....

[Jive Talking Robot]

Another idea on Motif XS and XF is to turn on/off the IFXs as you need them in the song, as long as you have them on on max of 8 parts at a time. So, you could have 8 different parts using the IFXs in different sections of your song....

Interesting... I thought the IFX were set up per channel once and only once... in other words, once you apply the IFX to channel 8, it had to stay applied to the track throughout the song. But what you are saying is that you could turn off the IFX from channel 8 halfway through the song and then, say, apply them to channel 9? If so, that's a much better workaround than screwing around w/ elements.

[apex]

Another idea on Motif XS and XF is to turn on/off the IFXs as you need them in the song, as long as you have them on on max of 8 parts at a time. So, you could have 8 different parts using the IFXs in different sections of your song....

Interesting... I thought the IFX were set up per channel once and only once... in other words, once you apply the IFX to channel 8, it had to stay applied to the track throughout the song. But what you are saying is that you could turn off the IFX from channel 8 halfway through the song and then, say, apply them to channel 9? If so, that's a much better workaround than screwing around w/ elements.

most def!!!! But I still want him to explain this element thing and how they use it as a work around.

[Shakil]

Apex....

Motif-XS/XF has up to 8 elements in a program. Each program/part is tied to a pair of effects processors. These two can be set in series or parrallel.

Each of the element can be set to be routed to be dry, effects 1, or effects 2.

You can also set keyboard range for each element.

So, if you wanted to get two sound using different effects, you could set split them on key range. Set the effects procesors in parallel. Define your sound 1 with first 4 elments, and set to play on left split, and route to effects 1. Define your sound 2 with second set of 4 elements, and set to play on right split, and route to effects 2..........

That's a lot of crazy work.......... but, not as bad as would be on some other synths. The Waveforms on Motif XS/XF have there velocity switches defined already, so you probably will need to use a single element for one sound.

I don't have Motif XS any more, so I can't tell the exact steps, but there is a switch on each part to specify if the parts will have the effects on that are defined in the program. So, I guess you could record that switch on/off sysex at different section of songs to automate it.

[mbncp]

[..]So, I guess you could record that switch on/off sysex at different section of songs to automate it.

... or get a DAW.

Do you guys/girls realize how silly this is ? Having to fool around with sysex data on a clumsy sequencer ?

A workstation could be use to make your wife/husband/children/step-mom/dad crazy, but it's not meant to drive you nuts.

[kanthos]

Not so silly if you mainly perform live and don't want to bring a laptop with you