Jupiter80 vs Kronos

Vlad_77 · Post by **Vlad_77** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:17 pm

Wow 40 PAGES??!!

I do not have a JP-80 - yet - so I cannot comment on its sound. But what DOES mystify me is why it has taken 40 pages of people really doing the same iterating and reiterating and re-rereiterating ad-nauseam. Kronos is a workstation and Jupiter is a performance synth.

Perhaps one problem is this rather problematic "versus" argument is an implied premise of each instrument's functionality. I weigh in heavily on Bruce's opinions because he has both and uses both and I believe can speak from a position of authority because of that. That being said, if I was looking for a keyboard that did a lot because I do not use soft synths - and actually I don't; I refuse to take laptops to gigs - I would choose Kronos. Now, keeping with the same scenario I would want to add a second tier board to complement Kronos. I would choose JP-80 because each does things that the other can't. In that sense one cannot make the argument as to which is "better."

Build quality in Kronos has been an issue for some; it hasn't for me. That said, I am not surprised that the JP-80 is built like a bloody tank. I have ALWAYS loved Roland for that. Maybe "better" makes sense in the regard of which instrument might better withstand the rigors of the road.

I still say that the more useful "versus" if there has to be one would be to do a head to head Kronos vs. Motif XF. They are both workstations and as such a comparison between the two just makes more sense IMHO. In the same vein, a comparison might be useful between JP-80 and a Poly Evolver or any other recently released performance SYNTH. (Caps for emphasis).

So quickly and I suppose off topic: I auditioned the XF for about five hours. I "liked" it but it didn't scream "buy me." It has better DACs and more ROM than my X8 certainly but I saw little beyond the flash RAM that semi-excited me about Motif XF. I do NOT like the Fantom G as it is a good instrument let down by Roland. I hasten to add that many here and elsewhere have made GREAT music on the G so please take no offense at my disparaging the G. I already have two Kurzweils - and the PC3 is almost a workstation - it lacks user sampling. So the only other choice among the majors was Korg. I bought the Kronos without playing it. I realized I was taking a bit of a risk. Pound for pound, function for function, I believe that Kronos blows the other major workstations out of the water. The Motif has what I feel is a byzantine interface. It is still a ROMpler for all intents and purposes. It is strong on acoustic emulation but what counts for me is that Kronos is extremely powerful in creating synthetic sounds - I suppose I am informed by my love of Kurzweil and the Wavestation and JP-8000 in that respect.

But one COULD argue also for a head to head comparison between the PC3 and JP-80 IF we take out the PC3's sequencer. The problem there of course is that I do not sense there are many Kurzweil users out there. If one considers the fact that we tend to use the phrase "big three" we are usually referring to Korg, Roland, and Yamaha, and Kurzweil is usually mentioned as an after thought.

I wrote in another post that I am really torn between a V-Synth or a JP-80. The V-Synth is older but is still in production. I think a compelling versus could be done with them in a sense.

Sorry for the ramble folks.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

PinkFloydDudi · Post by **PinkFloydDudi** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:27 pm

I think we have made quite a bit of headway in these 40 pages actually! I know my opinions of both have matured as a result of keeping up with this thread.

I agree with your comment that these 2 shouldn't really be compared to each other, as I stated before.

I also have come to the conclusion that as Bruce and RonF have been stating all along - the combination of having a JP80 and a Kronos is an absolute killer combo setup! One that I would be ok with saying would blow any 2 other synths out of the water!

scales · Post by **scales** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:17 pm

Comparing the two: JP-80 vs Kronos would, I suppose be in the context of the sound. And yes, I agree apples to oranges in terms of the other stuff. But I would also make the same argument while comparing Motif XS/XF with Kronos as many have already done. I would never sell my XS in order to buy a Kronos. As a matter of fact, I would have a really hard time selling my TX76 Extreme to buy a Kronos. It took some time to pay off both of those keyboards and I just don't think with this market that I could get much in return. But that's really aside from the point. I love both of my boards. It's taken quite a while to get the most out of each of them. The XS/XF really shines IMO playing third party samples loaded into the keyboard. Yes, the onboard sounds are good to great but I find myself playing loaded samples 90% of the time. Of course there's an obvious reason for that. So I would recommend to not strictly go by ROM sounds when demoing an XF. Find someone who has one, load some samples and give it a ride and see what you think. It's very different than the Kronos and the two compliment each other well. At some point, I will have a Kronos. It's one of the most musical machines I've ever put my hands on. If you're into creating/composing new material it's hard to beat. Sorry for beating the dead horse.

aron · Post by **aron** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:48 pm

> One that I would be ok with saying would blow any 2 other synths out of the water!

I would take the Kronos and a Motif or the Kronos plus a PC3 over the Kronos+Jupiter any day for live use.

For recording, that's another matter.

The Jupiter has a fantastic sounding reverb with a nice button on the top so you can turn it off and really hear what the instrument puts out. Try it sometime. As far as articulations, play the Supernatural sounds over and over and see how many different articulations you really get. You may be surprised.

As far as looks and build, it is top notch and personally I like the look.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:03 pm

aron wrote:> One that I would be ok with saying would blow any 2 other synths out of the water!

I would take the Kronos and a Motif or the Kronos plus a PC3 over the Kronos+Jupiter any day for live use.

For recording, that's another matter.

The Jupiter has a fantastic sounding reverb with a nice button on the top so you can turn it off and really hear what the instrument puts out. Try it sometime. As far as articulations, play the Supernatural sounds over and over and see how many different articulations you really get. You may be surprised.

As far as looks and build, it is top notch and personally I like the look.

The one thing I don't use on the Jupiter is the reverb.

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Bruce Lychee wrote:
aron wrote:> One that I would be ok with saying would blow any 2 other synths out of the water!

I would take the Kronos and a Motif or the Kronos plus a PC3 over the Kronos+Jupiter any day for live use.

For recording, that's another matter.

The Jupiter has a fantastic sounding reverb with a nice button on the top so you can turn it off and really hear what the instrument puts out. Try it sometime. As far as articulations, play the Supernatural sounds over and over and see how many different articulations you really get. You may be surprised.

As far as looks and build, it is top notch and personally I like the look.
The one thing I don't use on the Jupiter is the reverb.

Wow - really? Whilst different to the OASYS options (which are astonishingly good), the JP ones are very good too - in a different way. Can really transform a sound.

aron · Post by **aron** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Code: Select all

 Can really transform a sound.

I totally agree. When the reverb is off, those acoustic patches sound very thin. It has a fantastic reverb sound. People, try the Jupiter with the reverb button off.

The reverb on the Jupiter is used a LOT. When you hear the demos of the acoustic sounds, ask yourself, how much reverb are you really hearing - it's a LOT! Now press the button and listen again.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:07 pm

cello wrote:
Bruce Lychee wrote:
aron wrote:> One that I would be ok with saying would blow any 2 other synths out of the water!

I would take the Kronos and a Motif or the Kronos plus a PC3 over the Kronos+Jupiter any day for live use.

For recording, that's another matter.

The Jupiter has a fantastic sounding reverb with a nice button on the top so you can turn it off and really hear what the instrument puts out. Try it sometime. As far as articulations, play the Supernatural sounds over and over and see how many different articulations you really get. You may be surprised.

As far as looks and build, it is top notch and personally I like the look.
The one thing I don't use on the Jupiter is the reverb.
Wow - really? Whilst different to the OASYS options (which are astonishingly good), the JP ones are very good too - in a different way. Can really transform a sound.

I've been using an external reverb from EastWest.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:15 pm

aron wrote:
Code: Select all
 Can really transform a sound.
I totally agree. When the reverb is off, those acoustic patches sound very thin. It has a fantastic reverb sound. People, try the Jupiter with the reverb button off.

The reverb on the Jupiter is used a LOT. When you hear the demos of the acoustic sounds, ask yourself, how much reverb are you really hearing - it's a LOT! Now press the button and listen again.

The SN pianos sound better with the reverb off and resonance parameters turned up instead. I find the SN pianos quite sublime.

Personally, I think they use too much reverb in most of the factory sounds. They sound better when the reverb is pulled back a little.

aron · Post by **aron** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:44 pm

I found the Jupiter's piano and EP to be totally workable. Just fine. Personally I wouldn't map the pitch bend to do the harmonic series - to me that is not right. Nice looking keyboard though.

Rorcus · Post by **Rorcus** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:23 am

I agree they cannot be compared on a VS basis and do make a killer combo.

All I will say is, if the bailiffs knocked on my door tomorrow and demanded I hand ONE of them back I would give them the Kronos as I really couldn't part with the JP80 and I would carry on using Reaper as my sequencer.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:58 am

I would say the O-verb on Kronos blows away the reverb on JP80. JP80 has a very good verb, but I agree most presets are too washed in it. More than that...I understand what aron is saying about how the presets sound without verb, but I also think even without verb most of the JP80 presets have natural ambience, which is either good or bad depending on your application. JP80 has a hard time getting completely "dry". Kronos on the other hand gets as dry as the Sahara.

Bruce, I assume you are using QL Spaces? Perhaps one of the top 3 software reverbs out today! Nice!

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:18 am

RonF wrote:I would say the O-verb on Kronos blows away the reverb on JP80. JP80 has a very good verb, but I agree most presets are too washed in it. More than that...I understand what aron is saying about how the presets sound without verb, but I also think even without verb most of the JP80 presets have natural ambience, which is either good or bad depending on your application. JP80 has a hard time getting completely "dry". Kronos on the other hand gets as dry as the Sahara.

Bruce, I assume you are using QL Spaces? Perhaps one of the top 3 software reverbs out today! Nice!

Yes QL Spaces. Absolutely love it. I find it far superior to the stock Jupiter reverb.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:23 am

Bruce Lychee wrote:
Yes QL Spaces. Absolutely love it. I find it far superior to the stock Jupiter reverb.

Well its the best convolution reverbs I have heard.

Be sure to check out 2CAudio Aether/Breeze for one of the best algorithmic software reverbs! A very different "flavor" than convolution....excellent for sound design!

aron · Post by **aron** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:23 am

>JP80 has a very good verb, but I agree most presets are too washed in it.

Yes it is, but I really like how it makes that trumpet and violin sound so much better. Your post about the Virus made me think about how much I do like a reverb that has a "color". One that really envelopes the sound and enhances it. I feel like the reverb on the Jupiter is like that. I think it's an awesome reverb.

The O-verb is great, but it seems very neutral to me.

I think that's why the pads on the Jupiter sound so good too. Max polyphony+great reverb!