Is the Korg Kronos the right keyboard for me?

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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Darmin De'flern
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

qrobinez wrote:
Darmin De'flern wrote:Question with the drum track is it just drum or Bass as well because when I see people hitting another part of the keyboard sometimes a bass sound is coming off depending where the demo(er) is pressing etc.
The drumtrack is just one drumtrack that you can choose from the drumtrack library. You can also use different drumsets, ranging from Rock kits till the 909 electronic drumkit.

The video's you see, is when people use the combi mode. A combi can use up till 16 sounds. The arranger style patterns you have to add through KARMA modules. There are 4 KARMA modules available in combi mode. A KARMA module is basisly a predefined algorithmic pattern that you can modify in lots of ways.

For instance, say you want to have a Conga pattern that changes every 8 beats so that it's constantly different. That kind of things are possible with KARMA. But what you also can do is assign KARMA modules to specific patterns for dedicated sounds. Like a pattern for the bassline, a pattern for the guitar, an arpeggiator pattern or a drumsound or whatever you can think of. There are 1000's of patterns available to get you started and every pattern can be modified with 32 key parameters so that you can really modify the existing pattern.

let me start by giving an example, in the following demo i've made i play the bass line in an arranger style with the left hand, now what makes this interesting is that i created a split zone in the keyboard so that the bassline only works in the lower register of the keyboard. However, the chords i'm playing with my right hand determines how the bass pattern is played (minor or major).

This is a big difference when comparing this technique to keyboards where you play the chord with the left hand and the melody with the righthand. This is also possible with KARMA, but as you will see in the video, the added advantage of recognising what you do with your right hand is that you can create bassline that are hard to do on a keyboard.

For instance, in this video i play with a combi of my own in the Neo Soul style. This style has lots of strange chords like ditones and tritones that would be recognised wrong on a keyboard. But the KARMA engine can understand these kind of chords you play perfectly.

here's the example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I76v6UPRt6o

there are more examples on my channel and also some tutorials about how to program KARMA so you can see if you understand the idea behind KARMA. Especially tutorial 2: KARMA clusters gives some basic info you need when you are going to program your own combis. I would suggest that you watch that 2nd tutorial to see if the kronos KARMA implementation is what you expect it to be.
Cool thanks for the info sounds complicated but not that complicated if you know what I mean. will defintly check out your vid while refering to what your saying here thanks.

Your saying about jumping styles after a certain beat but would it be possible to sort of fool karma into acting like an arranger for example.

Plays chorus his trigger for karma to go into brige hits tirgger to go to chorus hits trigger to go back to verse for example?
Last edited by Darmin De'flern on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darmin De'flern
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

KevinH wrote:
Darmin De'flern wrote:
KevinH wrote:Karma is built into the Kronos, but there's a Karma Kronos program that you can puchase that goes way deeper into the programming than can be done directly on the Kronos. You can read more about that program here:
http://www.karma-lab.com/karmasoft/kk/kk_main.html

qrobinez made some great videos that show what you can do with the on board Karma editing. What's on there is pretty powerful already. The Karma Kronos software takes it even farther.
Thanks and motif has an external version of kronos any idea on cost of that?
The Motif has a software version of Karma that's a newer version than what's in the Kronos. It's not built in to the Motif, but needs to be run on a computer. It's not released yet, but Stephen Kay posted that the price would be $199. Here's a link to the Karma Motif page:
http://www.karma-lab.com/karmasoft/kmo/kmo_main.html

The Karma Kronos software is listed at $169.
great thanks for the info and the link!
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

xmlguy wrote:What you need is the PAKronos4x, if Korg would make one.
Is it in the best intrest for any keyboardto be a synth/arranger/workstation all in one though (new conspiracy alert :P) lol. I guess I got arrangers on both my other keyboards I would imainge that I should also be able to midi them up to use the superior sounds of the kronos while using the old styles though?
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Post by ScoobyDoo555 »

That would probably be the best option.
Each "part" of the accompaniment has its own MIDI channel - stick Kronos in combi or seq mode and swap the sounds over!
Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.
Darmin De'flern
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

ScoobyDoo555 wrote:That would probably be the best option.
Each "part" of the accompaniment has its own MIDI channel - stick Kronos in combi or seq mode and swap the sounds over!
Yeh I could do that at least until I learn how to tame Karma :P.

Do the drum tracks come with fills?
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Post by AdDeRoo »

I would imainge that I should also be able to midi them up to use the superior sounds of the kronos while using the old styles though?
Hi I have a PA2x linked up to a Kronos. You can set it up as you wish: triggering the arranger via the Kronos, or in addition have the PA2x Acc sounds replaced by Kronos sounds.

You'd have to tweak the mix then since volumes ec might work out a little different.

Then you'll have the best of both worlds.
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Darmin De'flern
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

AdDeRoo wrote:
I would imainge that I should also be able to midi them up to use the superior sounds of the kronos while using the old styles though?
Hi I have a PA2x linked up to a Kronos. You can set it up as you wish: triggering the arranger via the Kronos, or in addition have the PA2x Acc sounds replaced by Kronos sounds.

You'd have to tweak the mix then since volumes ec might work out a little different.

Then you'll have the best of both worlds.
Sounds good by the way anyone tried using the kronos from inside a daw I noticed it mention in one of the many demos (that you can link kronos up via usb and almost use as a vst?) I seen anyone have an idea how that works?
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Post by xmlguy »

Darmin De'flern wrote:
xmlguy wrote:What you need is the PAKronos4x, if Korg would make one.
Is it in the best intrest for any keyboardto be a synth/arranger/workstation all in one though (new conspiracy alert :P) lol. I guess I got arrangers on both my other keyboards I would imainge that I should also be able to midi them up to use the superior sounds of the kronos while using the old styles though?
There is no reason why arranger pattern sequencers are mutually exclusive of workstation features. We just live in this strange situation where keyboard manufacturers have come to wrong headed conclusion that arranger features need a separate product so that they will demand a premium price with cutdown features from workstations. I hope that eventually this separation between arrangers and workstations disappears. Perhaps Karma will help to kill this division, since it is a big step up from arps and arranger patterns, but could easily serve both purposes. The keyboards only need a few extra buttons to control the song parts. I know that Karma allows for the parts to be configured with other controls, but that does not make it as easy to use as having the buttons already set up and ready to go. There is a conspiracy. It is the conspiracy of capitalism to milk people for maximum profit by creating separate products for features that can be sold for more money than one product that can do it all. It certainly costs no more than $10 per keyboard to have arranger patterns and buttons, since even $100 consumer keyboards have them. It is very easy to ignore the arranger buttons if you do not use them.
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Post by steve m »

xmlguy wrote:What you need is the PAKronos4x, if Korg would make one.
I totally agree. A Kronos with a PA3X engine built in would give you everything. I have an Oasys 76 which I used alongside a Roland G70 for a few years, G70 midi'd to the Oasys to get the sounds of the Oasys played by the arrangements of the G70. I then switched the G70 for a PA3X and used it along with the Oasys for a few months. As I spent more time with the PA3X I realised the Oasys wasn't being used much anynore.

I rarely use the PA3X's internal styles, as I play mainly Prog Rock ( Floyd, Genesis, Wakeman etc ) so please don't think the PA3X is just for 'wedding singers'. PA3X is very flexible / programmable and has good quality sounds, it could just do with a LOT more sample memory.

Kronos and PA3X used together would be a powerful setup.
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Post by Darmin De'flern »

steve m wrote:
xmlguy wrote:What you need is the PAKronos4x, if Korg would make one.
I totally agree. A Kronos with a PA3X engine built in would give you everything. I have an Oasys 76 which I used alongside a Roland G70 for a few years, G70 midi'd to the Oasys to get the sounds of the Oasys played by the arrangements of the G70. I then switched the G70 for a PA3X and used it along with the Oasys for a few months. As I spent more time with the PA3X I realised the Oasys wasn't being used much anynore.

I rarely use the PA3X's internal styles, as I play mainly Prog Rock ( Floyd, Genesis, Wakeman etc ) so please don't think the PA3X is just for 'wedding singers'. PA3X is very flexible / programmable and has good quality sounds, it could just do with a LOT more sample memory.

Kronos and PA3X used together would be a powerful setup.
Thats the thing it does look like it does what I want it to do but I was disapointed in that for a flagship model it didnt take more or the Kronos side where it has such a huge powerfull sound set, synth section etc. I just felt that goin back to rom after having a SSD in its flagship workstation was a huge step back. I am a little intimidated by the Kronos as it comes across and fairly user unfriendly so doing relativly straightforward things will take time to learn etc.

You have to wonder if there is some type of unspoken agreement between the keyboard companies as I would have thought the first person to make a arranger,workstatino/synth combo would really have a best seller on their hands.
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Post by Lou »

It sounds like the PA3X would go very well with Omnisphere..
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Post by Randelph »

The built in KARMA patterns are fun to play along with, and of course you can buy expansion packs from Stephen Kay to augment what's already there.

Being what an awesome sound generator the Kronos is, with the added plus of KARMA, and that you're already involving a computer in your recording process: why not get a Kronos, use Band in a Box for your patterns, and have access to the highest quality sounds coming from a keyboard?

You might want to go to PA3x forums and Tyros forums and ask the question of people who have had workstations. There's a fun/accessiblity factor that will make a workstation more appealing to some folks, and an auto arranger more fun for others.

I've had a number of arranger keyboards, and the thing I didn't like about them was the lack of real time controls for modifying the sound; though with the Tyros and PA3x, IIRC, that's not an issue- there should be knobs for cutoff/resonance, etc.

The thing I did like about them was the sound was pre-tweaked to be pleasing- with fewer sound editing options, they're optimized from the get go. I also like the onboard speakers- I had a high end Korg and Yamaha arranger, and loved the built-in speakers: perfect stereo, pleasing without being too loud for people in the next room. I also like that they were very light weight.

You might ask the guy on this forum who just posted, "I'm in Big Trouble": his son wants a Kronos now that he's had a chance to play the Karmafied combos. He's been playing a Korg PA1x.
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Post by xmlguy »

It's possible to use a workstation as an arranger by doing the arranger part externally with hardware or software. Hardware arranger sequencers like the Yamaha QY100, QY700, or RS-7000 will work. I use the QY100 to do that. A software arranger like RealBand is actually better than the best pro arranger keyboards because it has much more power to control the arrangement as well as to dynamically generate backing tracks using samples from pro session musicians with RealTracks.
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Post by 1jordyzzz »

well considering that you primarily using keyboard with auto accompaniment feature, i suggest you go to yamaha for that...
i have a bad experience using korg's auto accompaniment keyboard (the one i used here on indonesia is PA-50, PA-500, and PA-588... as a pianist myself, i found that the piano sounds is decent.. theyre not bad, but they don't suit to my ears (i prefer yamaha and roland juno like piano sounds, which is brighter).. And much PA-50 users i found here experienced the same problem. Those keyboard (pa-50 especially) tends to degraded overtime. By degradation i mean the systems becomes laggy, the control button is not responsive, and the keybed doesn't report the velocity right, or worse, they didn't respond at all.... i've never tried korg pa3x, and yamaha tyros 4... They are very expensive... however, they provide more function than just being an auto accompaniment keyboard.. but i have a friend whose shop sells the tyros 4, and she tells me that the sounds are outta this world... AND AGAIN, much people in indonesia chooses korg pa-50 instead of yamaha tyros or psr series because their drum kit sounds real, and the bass and synths were punchy on the live situation.... HOWEVER again, with the same price, you could get a korg kronos, which has a SUPERB sounds, but lacks an auto accompaniment fuction.. Being a yamaha PSR s910 user myself (1 level below the tyros 4 but has HUGE price difference), and also being an auto accompaniment player, i'm satisfied with it... It's easy to use, the sounds were GREAT (guitars, flute, strings, brass are outta this world with the super articulation feature), it sounds good in a band or on solo performance live, the style creator is great, the vocal harmony and the mic input and the usb flash mp3 player and recorder works great!! however, the sequencer sucks (it's either real sucks or it's just me who doesn't know how to play it :p).. BUT, as a pianist, my problem is with the piano sounds.. Yes i know i told you it's better than korg's pa series, but it's no option if you are piano soloing (but still works if you do boogie woogie type of thing)

my advice, get a kronos 61 and midi it with your GW 8 if it's possible.. and then, the styles and sounds that you play on the GW 8 will transmit to the kronos.. and bingo!! the kronos is your sound source, but the controller is GW8..
and another advice, get a yamaha...
Love my kronos 88 :D
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well

Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
1jordyzzz
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Post by 1jordyzzz »

1 more thing...
the organ sounds in yamaha are crap....
at least the preset ones.. not sure if you tweak it using the organ flute feature...
Love my kronos 88 :D
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well

Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
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