No... it cannot be possible

[Dany]

Jupiter 80: 256 = 4 x 64 Voices per split zone, by using only 1 SuperNatural sound per zone. 1 SN synth sound has three layers. 1 SN acoustic sound has one layer...

Kronos and OASYS are absolutely unbeatable in this regard and far ahead of all competitors!

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Not at all clear that it is 4x64. Where did you get that?

An upper or lower "zone" in a registration can have 4 SN acoustic tones. A registration using upper, lower, solo and perc can have 10 SN acoustic tones. If you make a registration only up using synth partials, you can have up to 30 synth partials making up one registration.

This is a common misconception I've seen in several places. 256/4 = 64. There's 4 layers so therefore there must be only 64 available for each layer.

You and I both know that's totally wrong - it doesn't work that way.

@Cello and Bruce:

In the registration edit mode, under both, the „perc part“ and „solo part“ tabs, you have the menu point „Mono/Poly/Misc“, where you find the parameter: „Voice Reserve“ with the possible values from 0 to 64(Full).

In the Live Set edit mode (for lower and upper) you will find under the „Layer“ tab the menu point „Mono/Poly/Misc“, as well, with the parameter „VoiceRsv“ (Voice Reserve) for each of the four layers of the upper and lower Live Set, with the possible values from 0 to 64(Full).

In my understanding, this means a maximum of 64 voices for each: the perc part, the solo part, the lower Live Set and the upper Live Set.

Sorry if you think that I am wrong. So please, can you clarify my misconception?

Thanks...

PS: I own my Jupiters only since several days, so I am not (yet) an expert...

EDIT: We are going "off topic", so Bruce and Cello, If you don't mind, we should clarify this on the Roland Forum, where I will create a new thread.
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[1jordyzzz]

sorry for making this thread OT...
but does the supernatural piano on the jupiter consumes only 1 polyphony / osc per note??? AFAIK that's not possible on roland machine... for piano a keyboard needs at least 2 osc to make the sound (1 for left and 1 for right)... on kronos, the max is 400 (200 left 200 right, and another 100 for the damper resonance, for the max effective polyphony sustained of 100 notes)... well if somebody could test this on jup

again, sorry for starting an OT....

[Dany]

sorry for making this thread OT...
but does the supernatural piano on the jupiter consumes only 1 polyphony / osc per note??? AFAIK that's not possible on roland machine... for piano a keyboard needs at least 2 osc to make the sound (1 for left and 1 for right)... on kronos, the max is 400 (200 left 200 right, and another 100 for the damper resonance, for the max effective polyphony sustained of 100 notes)... well if somebody could test this on jup

again, sorry for starting an OT....

Sorry for beeing OT too. I promise, this will be my last OT post:

Sitting next to the JP80 I couldn't help to make a voice count. If anybody doubts my results, try it yourself by setting the filter key follow to -100 and setting the filter in a way, so that you don't hear the upper notes. The JP80 will always preserve the first played lowest note. Therefore, while pressing the hold pedal, you have to play the lowest key, than a higher second note, that you can hear clearly, and then play a trill with two upper keys, where you can't hear the sound anymore and count the notes, until the second note you've played will cut off.

My results by activating just the upper Liveset:

-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 64 voices.
-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 32 voices.
-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 21 voices.

-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 32 voices.
-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 16 voices.
-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 10 voices.

-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 21 voices.
-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 10 voices.
-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 7 voices.

-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 16 voices.
-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 8 voices.
-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 5 voices.

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[1jordyzzz]

sorry for making this thread OT...
but does the supernatural piano on the jupiter consumes only 1 polyphony / osc per note??? AFAIK that's not possible on roland machine... for piano a keyboard needs at least 2 osc to make the sound (1 for left and 1 for right)... on kronos, the max is 400 (200 left 200 right, and another 100 for the damper resonance, for the max effective polyphony sustained of 100 notes)... well if somebody could test this on jup

again, sorry for starting an OT....

Sorry for beeing OT too. I promise, this will be my last OT post:

Sitting next to the JP80 I couldn't help to make a voice count. If anybody doubts my results, try it yourself by setting the filter key follow to -100 and setting the filter in a way, so that you don't hear the upper notes. The JP80 will always preserve the first played lowest note. Therefore, while pressing the hold pedal, you have to play the lowest key, than a higher second note, that you can hear clearly, and then play a trill with two upper keys, where you can't hear the sound anymore and count the notes, until the second note you've played will cut off.

My results by activating just the upper Liveset:

-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 64 voices.
-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 32 voices.
-One LiveSet Layer activated using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 21 voices.

-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 32 voices.
-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 16 voices.
-Two LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 10 voices.

-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 21 voices.
-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 10 voices.
-Three LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 7 voices.

-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with one partial activated: 16 voices.
-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with two partials activated: 8 voices.
-Four LiveSet Layers activated each using a SN-Synth tone with three partials activated: 5 voices.

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well the max is 64 i guess... kronos wins hands down

[Dany]

well the max is 64 i guess... kronos wins hands down

You are wrong! My test just showed a limit of max 64 voices for the Upper Liveset, but in total you have of course 256 voices!

And also notice: I tested only the SuperNatural synth tones. I didn't test the SuperNatural acoustic tones...
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[1jordyzzz]

well the max is 64 i guess... kronos wins hands down

You are wrong. My test just showed a limit of max 64 voices for the Upper Liveset, but in total you have of course 256 voices!
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so there is a lower liveset aswell??? i didn't understand how roland's live set works..

[Dany]

well the max is 64 i guess... kronos wins hands down

You are wrong. My test just showed a limit of max 64 voices for the Upper Liveset, but in total you have of course 256 voices!
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so there is a lower liveset aswell??? i didn't understand how roland's live set works..

Maybe you should download and read the manual. "Liveset", "solo part", etc....these are finally all just names for four almost independent "zones", two of them containing four layers each and the other two zones containing one layer each. But a layer consists of up to three SN-synth partials or one SN-acoustic tone...
An hereby I 've broken my promise not to go OT again...
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[raik87]

Hi there, sorry about my bad english, i'm a german and i hope you will excuse it. javascript:emoticon('8)')

I've listed all the steps you need to have success with stephens method.

1) All Channels you would like to group in a scene must have different MIDI Channels, that's what normally happened when you select a INIT Combi.

Example: You would like to group a string and a piano sound in one layer
Piano - Channel 1
Strings - Channel 2
Others - every, except Channel 1 and 2

2) Open Karma GE Setup and disable below the GE setup line (first grey line) the Run button in section A

3) Open Perf RTP and do the following setting:

Group: Key Zones |Parameter: Thru Inside Zone | Button:Enable A | Assign: Switch1
For the next scene you have to increase button and the assigned switch

4) Open Karme GE Setup,take a look at MIDI I/O section and be shure that every scene have different channels (normally it set 1,2,3,4)

5) Enable Karma and select the control assign to RT Knobs/Karma by pressing the hardware buttons on left side or using control surface

6) Now you can select by using the "karma scenes switches" the scene you would like (it's blinking)

7) With the Karma Switches below you can activate/adress the timbre you want in that scene, maybe step to control surface to have a better view about.

Finally it all works like a mute/link grouping at a vca console or a snapshot function.
If you unterstand that fact it will give you a powerfull tool to layer, group and switch between those sounds/layers/splits without changing or steping combis.
You could create a "combi in a combi" and use the karma scenes to switch and handle different sounds at the complete keyboard zone,one octave or whatever.

Furthermore the discussed "MIDI-Kill-Button" is there, you only need to switch MIDI-Status to OFF, it will increase polyphony by cuting midi in to the engine, i've tested it with Double Screamer wich takes a lot of power.
Overall it's always better to set all timbres you don't need to MIDI-Status OFF

Hope it helps

[Dany]

You and I both know that's totally wrong - it doesn't work that way.

But you are unable to explain who it works, because you have no clue.

I am really disappointed about „cello“ and „Bruce Lychee“, who desided to ignore my rational search for the facts on this forum and on Roland Clan.

"Cello" just claims that he and Bruce "know" the secret of the JP-80 and choose to ignore me, and "Rocness" just treated me in a very disrespectful and humiliating way on the Roland forum:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44582

Thanks to all the other constructive participants.

But I will turn my back to this forum and also to the Roland forum.

The level of ignorance and destructive attitudes toward honest and rational people like me, is just unbearable anymore.

It is better to be alone, than in bad company...

Goodby folks and have fun with your "I know it better, because I belong to the better club" - attitude!

PS: And just for the record: I have a degree from the ETH Zürich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) and I started playing synths in the early 1980's with a Roland Juno-6. I have decades of experience in synth programing and playing. I am playing Jazz in all its forms and for practicing reasons I am also playing classical piano. I have two OASYS-88 and two Jupiter-80, a Clavia Nordrack3, a Yamaha FS1R and SY-99, Roland MC-505, A-90ex, Roland D-50 and a Fender Rhodes MarkI and an acoustic upright piano (Burger&Jacobi). I've owned a Roland Juno-6, TR-606, TR 505, D-550, RD300s, JD-800 and Yamaha SY-77, DX-7. (And I have an OpenLabs Miko and a Laptop with all Spectrasonics, Arturia, SonyOxford and NI- Plugins and Ivory and, and, and...)

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[raik87]

To have no clue is very subjectively, of course, i have a degree in engineering but i don't want to unterstand my intrument deeply in mathematics, i want to make music with them. For me the better path is to spend that time in musical practice or designing sounds instead taking analytics about things that korg isn't be able to realize. But like the first case, it is also very subjectively

[Bruce Lychee]

Uh, sorry for your disappointment in me Dany. I haven't been on the forums in a few days but I didn't realize this issue was such a pressing matter for you. I have participated in discussions regarding the Jupiter polyphony in the past and there was a lengthy discussion on the matter in the Roland forums. Perhaps you can learn the search function next time before pouting? Using a different test than yours, I did notice note cutoffs. I had all partials active with the volume on 3 parts completely lowered. I then held 10 note chords with each note being pressed and released sequentially. I only noticed a cutoff after 8 notes, which would account for more than 64, but less than 128.

My conclusion was that there was some sort of allocation of 128 between the upper and solo sets and lower and percussion sets, but without Roland's input I don't know the exact details.

[cello]

Sorry Dany - I've been travelling this week and am now packing for a trip to Abu Dhabi so not had time for forums/replies - not even music

I'm like raik87 above. I'm not a techie - and you've taken the conversation beyond my capability.

My point about 'it works differently' was perhaps not well worded. What I should have said was polyphony is not an issue for me as it does what I want musically, ie whether there's 5 or 10 or more partials going with as many or few layers I want to use, it doesn't run out of notes.

I accept that if you subject any keyboard to un-musical tests, then of course, in some way a limit (wherever that is) will be reached. But as it is unmusical is only of technical relevance which is of no interest to me.; I'd rather watch paint dry!

You do indeed have enviable qualifications - I think you'll find that many of us do in our own fields of interest.

I have 8 letters behind my name (LRAM - Licentiate of the Royal Academy of Music and ALCM, Associate of the London College of Music) but you know what?

All it means is that many years ago, on two particular days I played the piano extraordinarily well. Wish I could play that well now, but then I was practicing 6 hours a day (plus normal school hours), 7 days a week!

Hopefully you will now not feel the need to leave this or any other forum. I accept that a forum like this needs technical and musical input - and after all they are both, in their own way, part of the creative combination that results in great keyboards

[Dany]

Thank you all very much for your responses! As usual on this forum, I've overreacted...I am sorry...it's bad day today...
You just gave the proof, that my conclusions about your ignorance were completely wrong...
Peace...
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[Dany]

...My conclusion was that there was some sort of allocation of 128 between the upper and solo sets and lower and percussion sets, but without Roland's input I don't know the exact details.

...now, after I already went completely off topic, just one last remark:

I think your observations and your test, but also my test, with just the Upper Liveset activated, are consistent with the information available in the JP-80 Parameter Guide and I quote:

(Perc Part, Solo Part) Voice Reserve 0–63, FULL: This setting specifies the number of voices that will be reserved for each part when more than
128 voices are played simultaneously.

(Live Set) VoiceRsv (Voice Reserve) 0–63, FULL:
This setting specifies the number of voices that will be reserved for each layer when more than
128 voices are played simultaneously.
It is not possible for the settings of all layers to total an amount greater than 64. The remaining
number of available voices will be displayed at (rest=). Pay attention to this readout as you make
Voice Reserve settings.

But whatever, just let's play this beauty!

PS: And Bruce Lychee is right! I should have used the search function, before starting an egomaniac thread on the Roland Forum. But I hope, folks will understand my sensitive frame of mind: I just purchased TWO Jupiter-80s some days ago! So I am still in the „new gear fever“.

Oh my! I will probably never grow up...
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[Darmin De'flern]

...My conclusion was that there was some sort of allocation of 128 between the upper and solo sets and lower and percussion sets, but without Roland's input I don't know the exact details.

...now, after I already went completely off topic, just one last remark:

I think your observations and your test, but also my test, with just the Upper Liveset activated, are consistent with the information available in the JP-80 Parameter Guide and I quote:

(Perc Part, Solo Part) Voice Reserve 0–63, FULL: This setting specifies the number of voices that will be reserved for each part when more than
128 voices are played simultaneously.

(Live Set) VoiceRsv (Voice Reserve) 0–63, FULL:
This setting specifies the number of voices that will be reserved for each layer when more than
128 voices are played simultaneously.
It is not possible for the settings of all layers to total an amount greater than 64. The remaining
number of available voices will be displayed at (rest=). Pay attention to this readout as you make

I find myself a little not envious but wishful regarding some of your guys music qualifications. Unfortunately for me I am dyslexic and I just struggled with some aspects of music when I was learning got to grade 3 but really coudn't read a note and had to learn it all by ear so to speak lol. I really struggled with all the phrases and everything.

Think I quit about 13 or 14 as while I loved the piano and just adored to sit listening to my piano tutors playing the way I was being taught wasn't for me. It was only when I was 27 my brother had a cheap crappy kids keyboard (with kids sized keys) and started pottering around when I though im enjoying this. I was playing with minor keys due to the huge influence of Paradise Lost One Second album had on me at the time.

I went out to get myself a good instrument and one that would inspire me so I got the KN5000 which was a beast of an instrument at the time. I and basically taught myself scales and arpeggios based on some of what I remembered. I then found myself learning things like chord progression (though I had no idea of what that was at the time), experimenting with strange chords (which later I learned where sevenths and Csus4 etc.) I found as I was learning how to be dextrous and keyboard basics that I was starting to create tunes out of them and that's when I really fell in love with music again.

I know this is completely off topic but I really wanted to say some of the stuff on the forum has been heated but I think we all forget sometimes how blessed we are to have such a beautiful gift and away to express ourselves. I may not be as skilled as you guys but I am an artist like many of you who make your own music. So people here may not have qualifications or anything but many of us arrived at able to create music in their own way and I think are deserving in respect because anyone who can create something however they arrive at the destination usually worked dam hard to get there.

I hope people don't see this as a lecture but I am just saying sometimes people seem to lose sight of the fact that the music is where its at rather than the instruments or the journey taken to get to this point in time. Comparing instruments is interesting but think what makes this a great place is we all have something very special in common we all have a love and a desire to play and or create and listen to music!