Combinations disappears

krslae · Post by **krslae** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:13 pm

I am puttling a lot of work into both the Kronos’ sequencer and the combi modes, but now I’m really fed up: I have a lot of great custom combinations that I’ve really put some work into, but when I load songs that I have made into the sequencer, some cobinations just disappears and are replaced with empty ‘Init Combi’, and I lose a so many hours of work

This happends over and over again, and I don’t know what to do.

Anyone had this problem? Thanks in advance!

GooseK87 · Post by **GooseK87** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:11 pm

Well I don't know if I'm qualified to answer, but I do know that saving a Sequence (song) is a separate process from saving a Combination: songs are saved onto a usb flash drive, while combi's are saved onto the Kronos' internal memory.
Hopefully someone else can give a better response tho.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:12 pm

You're going to be wasting more time if you don't explain exactly what it is that you are losing or possibly not saving correctly… Try again.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:15 pm

Make sure you are just loading the .SNG file. If you've been doing 'Save All' and then loading the KSC file with everything else, it's going to put the Kronos right back to exactly how it was when you saved that SNG.

I personally don't see the point in that except for backup purposes. Korg has a 'save sequencer' option for saving songs you've been working on, and a 'save PCG' function for saving when you've been working on combinations/programs/etc.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:32 am

If you have properly saved the combis into the internal memory (using Write Combi or the REC button), they should be there. It sounds to me like you are loading a whole file containing older combis when you load the song, as someone suggested, by loading an ALL file. If you saved a song a month ago and used Save All, then made new combis in some spots that were Init, then load that ALL file from a month ago, it's going to overwrite your new combis with the init combis in the older data. As was suggested, don't use Save ALL and Load ALL - just save the song file separately and load that. Or, if you want to save a snapshot of the entire machine with each song, go ahead and use Save ALL - but be aware that loading it will overwrite the combis as well. You can go down inside the ALL file using the OPEN button in the LOAD page and load just the songs...

krslae · Post by **krslae** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Thanks a lot for your help

This is what I usually do: First, I might make some combis, and save these by hitting Write Combination from the menu. And then, if I decide to record some nice tracks or stuff in the sequencer, I open this up and start working on the first available (usually #000). As you guys said, I use the Save All option (in fact this is what Korg tells you to do, Kronos_Op_Guide page 107). I didn’t give it any further thoughts. Then I make some more combis before I browse for an old song on the drive. I load the old .SNG file for this partiular song and the recent combis are gone.

Thank you StephenKay for your spot-on help. I think I got it from this, and I’ll sit down tonight and figure it out. Save All is in fact Save All. From now on I’ll just save the song itself to prevent any more damage from happening

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:48 pm

The (likely) problem is not so much with the saving all as with the loading all. If you want to load JUST your songs you need to only load the SNG file and not tick any boxes for the PCG or KSC files. This is only a problem if your songs reference any custom made programs that might then not be loaded - but it sounds like you're only modifying combis and songs can't reference combis anyway so you should be fine just loading the SNG files.

krslae · Post by **krslae** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:10 pm

Okay, thanks. I forgot to mention that when i load, not only do the combis disappear, but some settings on global are switched back so there are some re-setup to do. I thought the Save all option was the only way to save a song, but maybe I’ll find another way

After all, the song itself is the only thing i want to save there and then (and not the entire setup).

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:20 pm

Disk mode/Lower left "Save tab"/Upper Rt. dropdown/Save Sequence (Song)

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:59 pm

I can see that somebody new to the Kronos and not familiar with the "Korg way" could be confused by the mix and match nature of the save/restore process. It really depends on the user understanding exactly how it works, and there are no warnings given.

As synth users, we have been manually managing songs and program/combi banks for years, because the instruments were not up to the task. Now that we have the Kronos with a real operating system, it should be possible to use the OS facilities to automate and safeguard the process.

The minor enhancement that is needed here is to have the bank loader look at time/date stamps. When loading a bank, the OS checks the date/time stamp of the last change to the bank in memory, and the date/time stamp of the bank that is being loaded. If the bank in memory is newer, display a warning that you are about to overwrite a new bank with an older bank.

krslae · Post by **krslae** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:06 pm

Well, in my case this is all new. I use a Nord Stage on some occasions (this is only a stage piano in a digital environment), and I just replaced my beloved Yamaha S90 for workstation.

So, saving song: If I press Save SEQ from the disk save menu, it will only save the .SNG file. From what I understand this is MIDI only. There is another option where I can save PCG and SEQ. the .PCG file includes instrument names, associated samples, and other instrument parameters, such as oscillators, keyboard splits, and velocity ranges. Would this, the .PCG along with the .SNG MIDI, be enough for saving a song? Will audio files, e.g. microphone audio, guitars, be included in these files, or is it in fact enough with the .SNG?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:23 pm

PCG contains the settings from the Program, Combination, and Global modes.

Saving a SNG will save everything that is currently in sequencer mode. So the program assignments, effects settings, mix, MIDI notes.. Basically every parameter from Seq mode, so saving an SNG will give you a file you can load to get all of your song back.

But keep in mind that programs used for the tracks in the SNG are just bank and program number. Not the actual sound settings. So if you were to use program I-A.52 and that was a bass, but then in Program mode you changed the bass, or even changed it entirely to a piano or guitar, then when you load that SNG it will be using the program sound from I-A.52, which was a bass and is now a piano, or whatever..
This is why some recommend using 'Save All', in case you make changes that later affect your sequences but you need them back..
In reality, it depends on how you make changes, what to, and how you keep track of them. For example as already mentioned, only Programs are referenced by songs, not Combis. So if you were only editing Combis, you would never have a program (if you draw up a chart of dependencies, then a Song and a Combi are roughly equivalents, both have very similar sets of settings too).

krslae · Post by **krslae** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:43 pm

That makes sense, thank you

I have a policy to not make changes to the factory programs or combis. In the newer OS there are so many empty slots for both programs and combis, so any changes that I make are saved to an empty slot, User 16 for instance.

This turned out to be a ‘save’ thread, and I am sitting down right now, saving over and cleaning up my personal stuff on the disk. I hope this thread also helps others.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:19 am

Krslae- in Korg nomenclature, "write" and "save"are two separate processes. You"write" to internal memory- RAM. You "save" to the internal SSD. when you make changes to Global parameters you write them. If you are doing a "Save All", they wiOill be "saved", also.