jimknopf wrote:plisken, I know the dpc latency checker, and I know a sound technician who once explained to me, that it is not that simple to display latency, and the latency checker does not really show what users normally expect it to show, but I forgot the details of that explanation.
I also know the lengthy discussions about windows driver activites possibly causing problems. But in doubt it only really helped here (Windows 7) in very rare cases to deactivate a WiFi card or the like.
So for me the choice is simple:
- with asio4all I get unneccessary CPU use, and hard to diagnose problems, as soon as I do a recording session with several midi/audio tracks.
- with my external Focusrite Scarlett and real Asio drivers I get no problems at all. I enjoy latency-free monitoring, can record more than one track from a Kronos Combi at once, and have my other keyboards connected for recording at the same time, directly accessible in my DAW template.
So for me it is
a) more reliable and problem free
b) more comfortable
to use the external audio card.
Anyone who gets by with the Asio4all solution and does not need anything else, should enjoy that, of course.
Oh I agree with you. I have a Motu 828MK3 interface. Its MUCH better in pretty much every way. Asio4all is there for those who dont Necessarily need a pro interface to do what they want to do. You cant get pro results with Asio4all.
Me personally I only use Asio4all on my laptop. When I travelling and I need to work on a mix, ill bust open cubase or pro tools with Asio4all so I can do some editing and mixing. Then when I get back home I can use my studio gear to fix/finish working on the project.
jimknopf wrote:plisken, I know the dpc latency checker, and I know a sound technician who once explained to me, that it is not that simple to display latency, and the latency checker does not really show what users normally expect it to show, but I forgot the details of that explanation.
I also know the lengthy discussions about windows driver activites possibly causing problems. But in doubt it only really helped here (Windows 7) in very rare cases to deactivate a WiFi card or the like.
So for me the choice is simple:
- with asio4all I get unneccessary CPU use, and hard to diagnose problems, as soon as I do a recording session with several midi/audio tracks.
- with my external Focusrite Scarlett and real Asio drivers I get no problems at all. I enjoy latency-free monitoring, can record more than one track from a Kronos Combi at once, and have my other keyboards connected for recording at the same time, directly accessible in my DAW template.
So for me it is
a) more reliable and problem free
b) more comfortable
to use the external audio card.
Anyone who gets by with the Asio4all solution and does not need anything else, should enjoy that, of course.
Oh I agree with you. I have a Motu 828MK3 interface. Its MUCH better in pretty much every way. Asio4all is there for those who dont Necessarily need a pro interface to do what they want to do. You cant get pro results with Asio4all.
Me personally I only use Asio4all on my laptop. When I travelling and I need to work on a mix, ill bust open cubase or pro tools with Asio4all so I can do some editing and mixing. Then when I get back home I can use my studio gear to fix/finish working on the project.
OK, so now you and Jim are saying the opposite of what Xtrade said to me at the beginning about not needing an extra audio interface for the Kronos? So, now I should reconsider? I'm confused again, when I thought it was resolved that I would not need one (for a mac) system. Did I miss something?
jimknopf wrote:plisken, I know the dpc latency checker, and I know a sound technician who once explained to me, that it is not that simple to display latency, and the latency checker does not really show what users normally expect it to show, but I forgot the details of that explanation
The dpc checker will show you problems relating to drivers taking too long to handle the bit of work they need to do, so it is usefull to show that something on you system is slow and can cause issues in other drivers that may be running, for instance the korg drivers handling audio streams.
It is not the same thing as what we usually call audio latency, the time it takes to get audio in or out of a computer.
Clicks and pops can be caused by many things but if you have a driver running on a windows machine introducing large spikes of dpc latency then it is a good place to start looking.
jimknopf wrote:plisken, I know the dpc latency checker, and I know a sound technician who once explained to me, that it is not that simple to display latency, and the latency checker does not really show what users normally expect it to show, but I forgot the details of that explanation.
I also know the lengthy discussions about windows driver activites possibly causing problems. But in doubt it only really helped here (Windows 7) in very rare cases to deactivate a WiFi card or the like.
So for me the choice is simple:
- with asio4all I get unneccessary CPU use, and hard to diagnose problems, as soon as I do a recording session with several midi/audio tracks.
- with my external Focusrite Scarlett and real Asio drivers I get no problems at all. I enjoy latency-free monitoring, can record more than one track from a Kronos Combi at once, and have my other keyboards connected for recording at the same time, directly accessible in my DAW template.
So for me it is
a) more reliable and problem free
b) more comfortable
to use the external audio card.
Anyone who gets by with the Asio4all solution and does not need anything else, should enjoy that, of course.
Oh I agree with you. I have a Motu 828MK3 interface. Its MUCH better in pretty much every way. Asio4all is there for those who dont Necessarily need a pro interface to do what they want to do. You cant get pro results with Asio4all.
Me personally I only use Asio4all on my laptop. When I travelling and I need to work on a mix, ill bust open cubase or pro tools with Asio4all so I can do some editing and mixing. Then when I get back home I can use my studio gear to fix/finish working on the project.
OK, so now you and Jim are saying the opposite of what Xtrade said to me at the beginning about not needing an extra audio interface for the Kronos? So, now I should reconsider? I'm confused again, when I thought it was resolved that I would not need one (for a mac) system. Did I miss something?
For just recording with the Kronos and nothing else? Yeah you should be fine with Asio4all. Its not going to make an difference in sound quality, especially since its digital.
Hal2001,
just give it a try and see if it works for your tasks. There's not much to debate if you get by with it and are satisfied.
I just say it doesn't work well here, and for home studio recording I prefer the external soundcard solution, for some other reasons explained above, anyway.
IF the internal Kronos card had genuine Asio drivers supplied by Korg, I would use it in situations where I don't want to carry external equipment with me (just a notebook and the Kronos).
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
jimknopf wrote: I prefer the external soundcard solution, for some other reasons explained above,
Thank you very much for your (and everyone else's) thoughts about the issue. In the future I will experiment with making comparisons between, with and without, an external AI like the Apogee Duet 2 and, before and after, upgrading to Logic Pro (possibly wait until Ligic Pro version 10 comes out.
i think it's better to have separate sound card (interfaces) for recording..
while we're here, i have a question about recording on kronos.. does anyone know how to plug condenser microphone to record in the audio tracks of kronos sequencer??? do i need separate mic preamp?? i do have interface (focusrite scarlett) already with built in preamp...
Love my kronos 88
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
jimknopf wrote:plisken, I know the dpc latency checker, and I know a sound technician who once explained to me, that it is not that simple to display latency, and the latency checker does not really show what users normally expect it to show, but I forgot the details of that explanation.
I also know the lengthy discussions about windows driver activites possibly causing problems. But in doubt it only really helped here (Windows 7) in very rare cases to deactivate a WiFi card or the like.
So for me the choice is simple:
- with asio4all I get unneccessary CPU use, and hard to diagnose problems, as soon as I do a recording session with several midi/audio tracks.
- with my external Focusrite Scarlett and real Asio drivers I get no problems at all. I enjoy latency-free monitoring, can record more than one track from a Kronos Combi at once, and have my other keyboards connected for recording at the same time, directly accessible in my DAW template.
So for me it is
a) more reliable and problem free
b) more comfortable
to use the external audio card.
Anyone who gets by with the Asio4all solution and does not need anything else, should enjoy that, of course.
Oh I agree with you. I have a Motu 828MK3 interface. Its MUCH better in pretty much every way. Asio4all is there for those who dont Necessarily need a pro interface to do what they want to do. You cant get pro results with Asio4all.
Me personally I only use Asio4all on my laptop. When I travelling and I need to work on a mix, ill bust open cubase or pro tools with Asio4all so I can do some editing and mixing. Then when I get back home I can use my studio gear to fix/finish working on the project.
OK, so now you and Jim are saying the opposite of what Xtrade said to me at the beginning about not needing an extra audio interface for the Kronos? So, now I should reconsider? I'm confused again, when I thought it was resolved that I would not need one (for a mac) system. Did I miss something?
The driver issues they are speaking of do not pertain to you at all, as ASIO (and Asio4all) is a Windows thing. On Mac, the Kronos supports CoreAudio which is Apple's native system, and it works well. You do not need an extra interface to get professional results. The only reason you might consider one would be if you would like to record the audio of multiple different channels on a combi at once, to separate tracks. The Kronos only sends 2 channels (left and right) over the USB connection. However, this would complicate things both in your setup and your combi programming, and would possibly even lead to worse sound because with the direct USB connection you have a fully digital setup as opposed to having to go through multiple conversions from digital to analog and back.
SanderXpander wrote: The driver issues they are speaking of do not pertain to you at all, as ASIO (and Asio4all) is a Windows thing. On Mac, the Kronos supports CoreAudio which is Apple's native system, and it works well. You do not need an extra interface to get professional results. The only reason you might consider one would be if you would like to record the audio of multiple different channels on a combi at once, to separate tracks. The Kronos only sends 2 channels (left and right) over the USB connection. However, this would complicate things both in your setup and your combi programming, and would possibly even lead to worse sound because with the direct USB connection you have a fully digital setup as opposed to having to go through multiple conversions from digital to analog and back.
Yes I must say I believe I am getting some really good results, or at least they satisfy me so far - e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DNoZJrCskU - but I always wonder if the production should be better and the audio interface issue was somewhat unclear to me. Now, I believe I can do without it on my mac and just concentrate more on making an optimal mix in the DAW after I lay the track(s). Thanks much for sharing your helpful thoughts here. Have a great weekend.
