Kronos Editor 2.0 - Feedbacks

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:23 pm

Shakil wrote: what you are missing is that the synths you listed work differently

What you are mising is Korg promised this: The Kronos Plug-in Editor (free download, coming soon) lets you use Kronos from within many popular DAW systems, as if it were a plug-in instrument.

Even though some people don't think it is worth it and they can do so much on Kronos without it - the fact is it was a selling point and there are people who tipped to the Kronos because that would be an awesome feature to have available for this machine. You notice it doesn't say (32 bit only) - if that is what they meant by "many popular" it could/should have been stated. - so for most current systems it just isn't going to cut it. For many it is like finding out it is only runs in DOS or OS 9 - just not useable for a lot of people - and if you are person to whom that feature is important or needed, it matters.

NavidSyed · Post by **NavidSyed** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:47 pm

I am slightly confuse, I am using sonar x2 64 bit, in my 64 bit windows 7 pro, I am able to run 32 bit vst plugins just fine? including Nexus in 32bit? what am I missing? so KRONOS editor is 32 bit and won't run in Sonar X2? or?

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:52 pm

and if you are person to whom that feature is important or needed, it matters.

Count me among those people. I just don't understand why they would design a Kronos editor to be unusable by a significant portion of Kronos owners.

I would gladly pay a reasonable fee for an editor I can actually use. (Usability...What a concept!)

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:55 pm

NavidSyed wrote:I am slightly confuse, I am using sonar x2 64 bit, in my 64 bit windows 7 pro, I am able to run 32 bit vst plugins just fine? including Nexus in 32bit? what am I missing? so KRONOS editor is 32 bit and won't run in Sonar X2? or?

From the editor's manual:

Windows: 32-bit VST Host required

The KRONOS Editor is a 32‐bit plug‐in. The Korg USB MIDI drivers for Windows support both 32‐bit and 64‐bit
applications, but cannot be opened by both 32‐bit and 64‐bit applications at the same time. The plug‐in and the VST
host each create their own connections to the USB MIDI driver; since the plug‐in is a 32‐bit application, the VST host
must be 32‐bit as well.

If you attempt to load the plug‐in with a 64‐bit VST host, the plug‐in will not be able to connect to the KRONOS.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:08 pm

Read this....

SoundQuest wrote:The explanation as to why the editor doesn't run in x64 has been discussed previously but to reiterate....

The DAW manufacturers licence a piece of software from a 3rd party company that allows their software to load and use 32-bit plug-ins. This licensed software has a bug in it where it crashes when any plug-in tries to store more than 1MB of data. Even when the data is compressed, the Kronos plug-in requires far more than 1MB of storage space. It is not the plug-in that is crashing but the x64/32 bit translator. The other apps don't crash because they require far less storage space.

Our discusions with Cakewalk about this problem indicate that the 3rd party manufacturer has been aware of the issue for several years and has done nothing to address it.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?p=507210

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:46 pm

Ok this keeps coming up so I have to ask: "DAW Manufacturers" - every single one uses this same vendor? Apples 32-bit Audio Unit Bridge is the same software as Pro Tools, Cakewalk, etc? Possible, but hard to imagine.

But more importantly if the problem is the software to load and use 32-bit plugins - would that not mean if the plugin was built as 64-bit, this buggy piece of software would not be needed and the issue is solved on all counts? Blaming it on a vendor that created a bridge to old technology that was needed in the past seems like a smoke screen. While there were some rough times for awhile, all my plugins made it to 64bit quite awhile ago.

I will also say in logic I did have the V1 plugin working. But it is hardly worth it. Logic can instantiate the plugins, but cant keep them displayed on screen. So as your working all of your 32bit plug interfaces disappear. If you want to check settings you have to click on the "only 32 bit plugin" screen and open it back up - workflow killer.

Shakil wrote:Read this....

SoundQuest wrote:The explanation as to why the editor doesn't run in x64 has been discussed previously but to reiterate....

The DAW manufacturers licence a piece of software from a 3rd party company that allows their software to load and use 32-bit plug-ins. This licensed software has a bug in it where it crashes when any plug-in tries to store more than 1MB of data. Even when the data is compressed, the Kronos plug-in requires far more than 1MB of storage space. It is not the plug-in that is crashing but the x64/32 bit translator. The other apps don't crash because they require far less storage space.

Our discusions with Cakewalk about this problem indicate that the 3rd party manufacturer has been aware of the issue for several years and has done nothing to address it.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?p=507210

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:05 pm

ed_f wrote:Ok this keeps coming up so I have to ask: "DAW Manufacturers" - every single one uses this same vendor? Apples 32-bit Audio Unit Bridge is the same software as Pro Tools, Cakewalk, etc? Possible, but hard to imagine.

But more importantly if the problem is the software to load and use 32-bit plugins - would that not mean if the plugin was built as 64-bit, this buggy piece of software would not be needed and the issue is solved on all counts? Blaming it on a vendor that created a bridge to old technology that was needed in the past seems like a smoke screen. While there were some rough times for awhile, all my plugins made it to 64bit quite awhile ago.

I will also say in logic I did have the V1 plugin working. But it is hardly worth it. Logic can instantiate the plugins, but cant keep them displayed on screen. So as your working all of your 32bit plug interfaces disappear. If you want to check settings you have to click on the "only 32 bit plugin" screen and open it back up - workflow killer.

Shakil wrote:Read this....

SoundQuest wrote:The explanation as to why the editor doesn't run in x64 has been discussed previously but to reiterate....

The DAW manufacturers licence a piece of software from a 3rd party company that allows their software to load and use 32-bit plug-ins. This licensed software has a bug in it where it crashes when any plug-in tries to store more than 1MB of data. Even when the data is compressed, the Kronos plug-in requires far more than 1MB of storage space. It is not the plug-in that is crashing but the x64/32 bit translator. The other apps don't crash because they require far less storage space.

Our discusions with Cakewalk about this problem indicate that the 3rd party manufacturer has been aware of the issue for several years and has done nothing to address it.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?p=507210

Yes, that's assuming that even with the 64bit plugin, the hosts will not have a problem with large amount of data required for KRONOS total recall, which I doubt, but you neve know.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:17 pm

After reading a couple of positive reports about the editor i've decided to try it again. The version 1 never worked on my system because the midi driver failed to work stable with the yamaha midi driver in my 64 bits environment.

Now the new midi driver 1.4 was out and since i've tried the V2 version only with midi driver 1.3, i've decided to try it again, so here are my findings.

2 hours ago:
- uninstalling driver 1.3
- uninstalling V2 editor
- installing driver 1.4
- installing v2 editor again.
- Starting the editor with some mixed feelings upfront

2 hours later:

I'm REALLY HAPPY now

, there has changed a lot on the communication side. Everything works instantly now. When i change a program then i can hear immidiately hear the results instead of having to wait for 10 seconds for the complete synchronisation.

It even works next to my 64 bits cubase environment so i can use it as a bank manager for the combi mode so that i can use the sounds i want for a production. It's still a pity that it doesn't can't be used as a 64 bit VST instrument but ok, i can work this way now. You have to set it up a little bit differently in cubase to make it work:

- in cubase choose your master keyboard for midi in
- in cubase choose the Kronos 1 sound for midi out
- that way you can use a different keyboard from cubase to the Kronos while you can do the edits in the v2 editor.

I'm not really sure if the driver is reponsible for the new performance or the editor enhancements but on my system it's really noticeable. For instance grabbing a complete HD1 program bank (127 programs) took only a few seconds. In the old version that took over 2 minutes on my system.

Now i know that a lot of people don't like the GUI of the engine, on that point i don't agree. It's really convenient to have the same gui as on the kronos. You only have to learn the gui design once and then it doesn't matter if you are working on the computer or on the Kronos. I saw that there still were some things missing in the editor (like the IFX / MFX presets for instance or the knobs and faders in the tone control section which are missing), but probably this will be added later.

I will postpone the current tutorial i was working on and will create a tutorial of how to use the stand alone Editor in a 64 bit DAW environment, so that you can use it in your songs. It works now with the synchronisation speed you need from an editor.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:17 pm

Yes, the communication is really useable now, as I wrote in another post: a really positive side of the update.

Concerning the GUI, I see the benefits of an identical basic structure to find what you are used to, but I would definitely like to see redesigned big screen subpages for engines (I prefer Chrutils AL-1 editor view ten times over the Kronos subpages) and for global functions.

And the workaround is not more than that: a 64bit version is a basic requirement for many users.

Still glad it worked out for you as described!

phattbuzz · Post by **phattbuzz** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:26 pm

Looking for an 8-bit version I can run on my Commodore 64.

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:18 pm

An information for the community :

Launching Kronos Editor 2.0 VST plugins into DAW Sonar X1 is possible on a Windows 7 Pro 64bits.

KORG MIDI Driver was 1.3 not yet update to 1.4

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:00 pm

phenaste wrote:An information for the community :

Launching Kronos Editor 2.0 VST plugins into DAW Sonar X1 is possible on a Windows 7 Pro 64bits.

KORG MIDI Driver was 1.3 not yet update to 1.4

Are you running SONAR X1 in 32bit or 64bit mode?

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:23 pm

SONAR X1 is in 64 bits mode.
Some plugins are in the both version, so I can choose which one to use.
Some VST plugins are in 64 bits and some other in 32 bits.
32 bits or 64 bits is displayed into parenthesis.

I'm aware of incompatibility due to 64bits, but as far as I know SONAR uses a seemless wrapper for 32bits plugins into a 64bits environment.

I could use my Novation SL-61 mkII to play Kronos via Kronos VST plugins and change sounds of the Kronos from the bank tab in different mode (Prog, Combi).

I post this message because I think it would be helpful for many users

jduesenb · Post by **jduesenb** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:52 pm

It's nice to hear from an expert such as QuiRobinez re. his experiments with the Editor 2.0. And I very much look forward to any Editor-related tutorials you may produce, Qui!

I'm running Editor w/ Mac OSX Lion 10.7.5, and the latest Korg USB/MIDI driver update. I've found it to be communicating with Kronos more speedily when used as a standalone app. It's also less prone to crash. It's certainly not the best synth editor I've worked with, by a long shot.

Like at least some others, I'm not getting anywhere with the AU or VST plugin versions. For example, Digital Performer recognizes the AU plugin and it's possible to get to the opening Editor screen, but then it crashes or hangs up in various ways. I don't really have much use for this Editor as a plug-in, but still... it makes me nervous. Another program that will recognize and load the plug-in, but then blows up, is Steinberg WaveLab.

One problem I had, and I'm not sure if it's my fault or the Editor's, is that a Program I created from scratch, in Bank U-EE, did NOT get saved to disk on the Mac, even though I did an explicit Save before quitting. So 30 min. editing work was lost... has anyone else experienced such a problem?

A smoothly-running and reliable computer-hosted Kronos Editor seems to me essential for anyone who wants to get the most out of programming this instrument, especially users who don't have the greatest eyesight. Working with the built-in touchscreen for more than an hour starts to drive me blind and batty with headaches.

I really don't mean to be slamming Korg, SoundQuest, or anybody else by these comments. Just hoping that the Editor will continue to be improved in the long term.

QuiRobinez wrote:[snip]

I'm not really sure if the driver is reponsible for the new performance or the editor enhancements but on my system it's really noticeable. For instance grabbing a complete HD1 program bank (127 programs) took only a few seconds. In the old version that took over 2 minutes on my system.

Now i know that a lot of people don't like the GUI of the engine, on that point i don't agree. It's really convenient to have the same gui as on the kronos. You only have to learn the gui design once and then it doesn't matter if you are working on the computer or on the Kronos. I saw that there still were some things missing in the editor (like the IFX / MFX presets for instance or the knobs and faders in the tone control section which are missing), but probably this will be added later.

I will postpone the current tutorial i was working on and will create a tutorial of how to use the stand alone Editor in a 64 bit DAW environment, so that you can use it in your songs. It works now with the synchronisation speed you need from an editor.

SoundQuest · Post by **SoundQuest** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:58 pm

One of the nice things about the Mac is that it automatically generates crash logs. They are found in

~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter

If there is a crash and you want to forward the log(s) to support@squest.com they will have a look that them. Not always but frequently these can be very helpful in tracking down a problem. With that said, we aren't getting crashes here with DP so we don't have anything to work with.

Regarding the lost data, did you specifically move the edited patch from the edit buffer back into the bank? If you didn't then the edited patch is still there (assuming the file has not been edited since). It is in the stored edit buffer, not the bank location.

To store the data, you need to either select a different program for editing, in which case the existing program is automatically stored or specifically store the modified program using either "Store" or "Store In" menu options.