Combi Bank Select Output BUG?

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:23 pm

I am trying to set a bank and program on a different synth through a track of a combi. I have done a similar thing in the Sequencer and it works fine.

I set the track status to EX2 - which according to the manual:
"When the Status is set to EX2, these parameters allow you to transmit MIDI Bank Select messages for changing banks on external MIDI devices."

And this is just what it does in sequencer, if I change the program number I see a complete Bank MSB LSB and program number all sent and it changes just fine. So I know I am sending the correct bank number.

So the problem? Well, in combi mode this setup sends a couple of sysex messages instead. Of course my other gear does nothing with that. I have searched the manual and see nothing that indicates that would happen, or any kind of control to switch from sysex to a midi bank change.

Anybody have insight into this? Thanks

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:35 am

Hmmm, I'm experiencing the same behaviour.

Setting the channel to EXT works fine for sending program changes, but using EX2 mode only sends system exclusive messages. Changing combis also does not fix the issue.

So yes, I would say this is a bug.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:14 am

Thanks for giving it a test - helps me know it isn't just my system.

adamburgess · Post by **adamburgess** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:42 am

Works fine in Combi and Set List modes for me with my Nord Stage 2... I'm running 2.0.2.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:39 pm

Interesting 1 out of 3 seems to work - is it sending midi bank messages?
I am monitoring my midi output and definitely getting sysex.

adamburgess · Post by **adamburgess** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:11 pm

Hey. I've never monitored exactly what it sends out but Program change-wise: EX2 is set on timbre 16/Ch. 16 - MSB is 0 and LSB is set to 0, 1, 2, 3 = Banks A, B, C, D on the Nord.

It may be a SysEx because the Nord's MIDI channel is generally set to 2 for layering and stuff and not 16, but always works...

I think

- that's from memory

(the boards are cased up ready for transport to the next job)

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:44 am

Combi select will probably send some sysex messages *as well as* program and bank select, depending on the various appropriate settings.

EXT 2 works, AFAIK. If you can't figure out how to get it to work with your setup, please talk with your Korg distributor's tech support and they'll be happy to help.

- Dan

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:08 am

Have you got all of your MIDI channels set up correctly. I do this same thing with a Hammond XK-1, transmitting Ext 2, bank and program select messages on MIDI channel 16 with the XK-1 receiving on MIDI channel #16. I usually use Timbre #16 for this purpose.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:52 am

Ed- maybe some more details would be in order. Are you physically connecting the K with the external module, or is there something in between? PC? MIDI patch bay? My example is the K & the XK-1. Nothing else.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:33 pm

Ron and Dan - thanks for trying but you missed some important parts of my message.

Everything is set up correctly as far as cabling etc. because if I do the exact same thing from Sequencer mode it works perfectly.

Lets say I am trying to send Bank: MSB 00 LSB 00 and Program 1.

I do the following in both Sequence and Combi :
Set Track 1 to EX2 - Set MSB of track 1 to 00, LSB to 0
If I now try to change the program to 1 for example
In Sequencer mode the Kronos outputs exactly what I would expect and my other gear updates:

08:17:06.774 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Control 3 0 0
08:17:06.774 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Control 3 32 0
08:17:06.774 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Program 3 1

But again, from Combi mode exact same setup, that is not the case it outputs:

08:18:49.358 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes
08:18:49.358 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes

This is watching the midi directly coming off the Kronos with a program on my computer. So, while I do have an interface between my Kronos and the outboard gear - that will not effect the midi the Kronos will output when I try to increment the value. And again, from Sequencer it works like a charm.

>> Ron - your comment does bring up an interesting question though. So you have a midi cable coming from the Kronos out to your XK-1 in? I have my Kronos on USB to my computer so I guess it is possible that what is being sent over USB is different than what is sent to the the midi cable.

Please note that another person tried this also and saw the same results as me. While I never rule out user error. I have spent a ton of time trying to work this out before posting here and I just don't believe any bank message is sent from combi mode. I might try a direct connect to see what happens, of course I can't monitor the actually midi commands then - but if it works - while it won't help me, it will tell me something.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:02 pm

What are the MIDI channels of the Track in question and the Global MIDI channel?

- Dan

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:00 pm

Dan - thank you, that pointed me in the right direction.
I have some sense of why it is happening now. But, it still seems like a bug to me.

In my initial test I was using the global midi channel which was set to 1. Since I was sending note data to the outboard synth and was able to play notes so the connection seemed fine and only the bank select was missing.

I re-tried that two different ways with following results:

MIDI Channel 01G
12:39:06.173 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes
12:39:06.173 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes

MIDI Channel Gch
12:39:06.173 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes
12:39:06.173 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes

So indeed, if it is set to one of those two options, that is on the global channel no bank select is sent.
If I change the midi channel to something else, for example 2 then I get a bank select (and some sysex as you had described):

MIDI Channel 2
12:38:20.289 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes
12:38:20.289 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Control 2 0 0
12:38:20.289 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Control 2 32 0
12:38:20.289 From KRONOS KEYBOARD Program 2 3
12:38:20.289 From KRONOS KEYBOARD SysEx Korg 14 bytes

While this offers a workaround solution - it is less than ideal. If for example you need to use Channel 1 for your outboard synth and everything you have programmed on the Kronos uses 1 as the global channel, it would require a change of the global channel on the kronos and reprogramming everything. Or although it might seem extreme, if you wanted to control all outboard gear on each of the 16 channels of a combi you couldn't use one channel because it is a global channel.

To be complete - the difference with the sequencer is it was using MIDI channel 01, not 01G - that seems to make the difference. Setting to the global channel seems to negate a Bank and Program select.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:01 pm

What are the MIDI channels of the Track in question and the Global MIDI channel?

- Dan

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:43 pm

My messages got scrambled - I think my results are showing though.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:48 pm

According to your reply, the Timbre in question is on the Global channel. As noted in the Parameter Guide, program change and bank select messages are not sent from Timbres on the Global Channel. (The Global Channel is used for selecting the Combination, instead.)

Hope this helps,

Dan