Hi I own a Kaoss pro and decided to invest in the KP3 so that I can use them together but even more importantly I was interested in the longer looping time. I read somewhere that if the BPM on the KP3 was 73 or lower it would give something like 13 seconds of playback. Well that's fine but here is the problem. The loops cuts off and then after a second or so it goes on again. The Kaos Pro loop function works perfectly meaning that it will just continue with the next chord (i'm pluggin a guitar into the line input) When I play three chords for instance D E A it will keep repeating those there chords in a nice flowing pattern and then I can riff over them and add all the other synths etc. I really hope I'm missing something or I've just spent a boat load of money and I won't have one of the key functions I wanted. I know I could have bought a loop pedal but I really like all the other functionality of the Kaoss. I own the KP-W and it's so much fun with the guitar except you can't really loop anything. I hope someone can help!! Thanks
Maria
Frustrated with looping in KP3
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
Don't give up yet. You're missing a few things. It helps a lot to use the software editor on the KP3 because it graphically shows the audio sample being looped. The KP3 doesn't have a delay at the loop point. It restarts the loop immediately. However, the length of the loop is based on the BPM and the number of beats you have set for the loop. The length of the loop is not based on the contents of what you sample into the loop. If the audio ends in the sample before the loop itself ends, you'll hear nothing - which you seem think is a delay in the loop restarting, but it isn't. The dead space you hear is probably because you don't have a long enough audio in the loop to fill all the time, which will cause no sound from the end of the audio you hear until the loop restarts. You'll see this dead audio in the editor.
You can think of the KP3 sample loops as if they are digital versions of audio tape that has been spliced into a loop. The size of that loop is based on the BPM and # of beats. What's recorded on that tape doesn't affect the length of it. If you have 12 seconds of music on a 13 second loop, then you'll have 1 second of dead time before you hear the loop come to the end point and immediately restart. In the editor, you'll see the dead space as a flat line at the end of the music. You need to either shorten the loop length or add more audio.
The length of the loop is 60/BPM * #_of_beats_for_loop. The info you got about BPM <73> 73, the max beats are 16. For BPM > 39 and <= 73, the max beats are 8. For BPM <= 39, the max beats is 4. So for 72 BPM, the max beats is 8. The length of a 72 BPM loop with 8 beats = 60/72 * 8 = 6.667 seconds. The length of a loop at 74 BPM and 16 beats = 60/74 * 16 = 12.97 seconds. However, the KP3 does let you turn on/off 8 individual slices of the loop. See pages 14-15 of the manual about slicing.
You can think of the KP3 sample loops as if they are digital versions of audio tape that has been spliced into a loop. The size of that loop is based on the BPM and # of beats. What's recorded on that tape doesn't affect the length of it. If you have 12 seconds of music on a 13 second loop, then you'll have 1 second of dead time before you hear the loop come to the end point and immediately restart. In the editor, you'll see the dead space as a flat line at the end of the music. You need to either shorten the loop length or add more audio.
The length of the loop is 60/BPM * #_of_beats_for_loop. The info you got about BPM <73> 73, the max beats are 16. For BPM > 39 and <= 73, the max beats are 8. For BPM <= 39, the max beats is 4. So for 72 BPM, the max beats is 8. The length of a 72 BPM loop with 8 beats = 60/72 * 8 = 6.667 seconds. The length of a loop at 74 BPM and 16 beats = 60/74 * 16 = 12.97 seconds. However, the KP3 does let you turn on/off 8 individual slices of the loop. See pages 14-15 of the manual about slicing.
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sleepingangel
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 pm
Hi there, thanks for trying to help. The funny thing about the audio and the loop length. IT's the opposite of what you are describing. If the loop length is 16 beats. I can play 16 or 17 and it will automatically stop recording when it reaches that predetermined amount (I even tried it with 8 too) it still has a space before the loops starts again AND its a sharp cut off. IT's not smooth. It's just strange for me because the Kaoss pro lets me do what I'm describing (play a few chords and have it loop nicely)
I'm hoping it what the other guy said about updating the latest firm ware. Which btw also posed a problem on my mac. Lucky I have a pc too and it worked fine. I couldn't update the Kaoss pro because I have a 64 bit Windows 7 and it's not compatible. But I think that one was a very minor bug fix.
I was able to update the KP3 on the pc to version 2.0 the latest version. I didn't try to record the guitar after that update but I will. Thanks for the extensive info I appreciate it.
Maria
I'm hoping it what the other guy said about updating the latest firm ware. Which btw also posed a problem on my mac. Lucky I have a pc too and it worked fine. I couldn't update the Kaoss pro because I have a 64 bit Windows 7 and it's not compatible. But I think that one was a very minor bug fix.
I was able to update the KP3 on the pc to version 2.0 the latest version. I didn't try to record the guitar after that update but I will. Thanks for the extensive info I appreciate it.
Maria
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sleepingangel
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 pm
I hope you are okay and thanks for trying to help. When you get better let me know what you are referring to.csteen wrote:I am typing from my hospital bed but can tell you to get the latest operatng system fir the unit and then there are three ways after that to save your samples I know that one is from the beggining to end
Thanks
Maria
Hi Maria,
No, I think you're still confused about what's happening. It's doing what I said. The loop length is determined by the BPM and # of beats. It will cut off any audio exactly at the end of the last beat (in other words, exactly on the 17th beat of a 16 beat loop). Did you look at the sample in the software, as I suggested? It will show where the gap responsible for the break in the audio is located. Based on your new description, the problem is probably because you have a gap at the start of the loop. It's very hard to time the start of sampling with the actual first beat of the music. There will almost always be a significant gap there due to being to early or too late to hit the button. This is due in part because there's no lead-in beat count and delay before recording occurs, as there is with many other loopers and recording DAW software.
Yes, there will always be a sharp cutoff if there is any music or audio being sent to the KP3 when the loop finishes recording, often resulting in a click or pop. There are several ways to fix that. One way is to be sure that the start and stop of the loop are silent, but not only is that hard to do, it tends to increase the blank gap at the start and end of the loop. Another way is to practice the timing of hitting the sample pad as closely as possible to the start of the first beat of a measure, without cutting it off, and then timing the last beat to end just before the sampling stops. It's hard to do when sampling live.
You can also adjust the start point of the loop within the sample. See the Start Point setting on page 14 of the manual. You'll hear the "delay" disappear if you adjust the start of the loop to get rid of any lead-in gap in the audio before the first beat in the sample.
Any click can also be masked by a drum beat pattern or by having some other intentional "glitch" effects, so that the audience won't even notice it. This is the technique that Beardyman uses. He's constantly applying effects and resampling, so the loop point clicks aren't obvious when he's changing-up the beat so often. Another technique to fix the problem of gaps in the audio or clicks is to fix the loop sample in an audio editor on the computer. That can't easily be done live, but it works when you want to setup the loops in advance. Look up Beardyman on youtube if you want to see a great example of KP3 looping.
The firmware update doesn't change this at all. It gives some different options for syncing and starting loops. It won't change the problem with the gap in the audio or the clicks at the loop point.
No, I think you're still confused about what's happening. It's doing what I said. The loop length is determined by the BPM and # of beats. It will cut off any audio exactly at the end of the last beat (in other words, exactly on the 17th beat of a 16 beat loop). Did you look at the sample in the software, as I suggested? It will show where the gap responsible for the break in the audio is located. Based on your new description, the problem is probably because you have a gap at the start of the loop. It's very hard to time the start of sampling with the actual first beat of the music. There will almost always be a significant gap there due to being to early or too late to hit the button. This is due in part because there's no lead-in beat count and delay before recording occurs, as there is with many other loopers and recording DAW software.
Yes, there will always be a sharp cutoff if there is any music or audio being sent to the KP3 when the loop finishes recording, often resulting in a click or pop. There are several ways to fix that. One way is to be sure that the start and stop of the loop are silent, but not only is that hard to do, it tends to increase the blank gap at the start and end of the loop. Another way is to practice the timing of hitting the sample pad as closely as possible to the start of the first beat of a measure, without cutting it off, and then timing the last beat to end just before the sampling stops. It's hard to do when sampling live.
You can also adjust the start point of the loop within the sample. See the Start Point setting on page 14 of the manual. You'll hear the "delay" disappear if you adjust the start of the loop to get rid of any lead-in gap in the audio before the first beat in the sample.
Any click can also be masked by a drum beat pattern or by having some other intentional "glitch" effects, so that the audience won't even notice it. This is the technique that Beardyman uses. He's constantly applying effects and resampling, so the loop point clicks aren't obvious when he's changing-up the beat so often. Another technique to fix the problem of gaps in the audio or clicks is to fix the loop sample in an audio editor on the computer. That can't easily be done live, but it works when you want to setup the loops in advance. Look up Beardyman on youtube if you want to see a great example of KP3 looping.
The firmware update doesn't change this at all. It gives some different options for syncing and starting loops. It won't change the problem with the gap in the audio or the clicks at the loop point.
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sleepingangel
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 pm
I bow to you!! I was very confused thinking my problem was the end if the loop when in fact it was the beginning. That is a complete bummer that korg didn't use the "endless" loop as they do in the Kaoss pro. I actually bought the kp3 cause it had a longer loop time. However now that I can see where the problem is I can sort of make it work with some of the solutions you proposed. I could even loop the guitar chords in sequence in the korg pro and then my hands would be free to get the timing right on the kp3. After that its easy because then I would just be adding some melodic parts that don't necessarily have to come in on the beat or last for the entire duration Thanks so much for helping a newbie. I also starting playing around with the effects and wow they are awesome! I can certainly see a lot if potential for my music even with the looping limitation. Im surprised korg doesn't do a little update to just give us a 2 second lead in that's all I would need to fret and strum. Oh well I won't hold my breath for that though and besides as they say necessity is the mother of invention. Thanks again and next to do when I get some sleep is to install the editor!
Thanks
Maria
Thanks
Maria
Glad to help, Maria! I've been looping with the KP3 for many years and many hundreds of hours, so I've had a chance to figure out most of these issues the "hard" way. The KP3 is brilliant in some ways, but aggravating and limited in others. It works best after you learn to work around its limitations and focus on its strengths. It was designed and produced long before the Kaossilator Pro, and in fact, the KoPro was designed based on moving the original Kaossilator features to the more powerful KP3 hardware. So in many ways the KoPro actually IS the next version of the KP3 looper. Unfortunately, while adding overdub looping to the KoPro using the KP3 hardware, they also added a different problem that causes the running loop to get messed up with a glitch when turning on the loop. If anything is being played on the pad when the loop is selected, a bit of it gets overdubbed on the loop, even if you had no intention of modifying the loop that you select. It's very aggravating to accidentally mess up a loop that was fine the way it was.
I've come to the conclusion that Korg is just clueless when it comes to doing looping well, particularly for guitar/bass looping where it helps a lot to have a foot switch to control the looping. The Roland loopers do a much better job in every respect, and the new RC-505 looks amazing. The KoPro is best for its strengths of doing cool synth music and beats on the pad within its looper, but not great for long loops (or for chord progressions). The KP3 is great for all of its live effects. I wish there was one product that could do it all, but these products all have their strengths and weaknesses. Another unique looper is the TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch, which has great vocal harmony and effects.
I've come to the conclusion that Korg is just clueless when it comes to doing looping well, particularly for guitar/bass looping where it helps a lot to have a foot switch to control the looping. The Roland loopers do a much better job in every respect, and the new RC-505 looks amazing. The KoPro is best for its strengths of doing cool synth music and beats on the pad within its looper, but not great for long loops (or for chord progressions). The KP3 is great for all of its live effects. I wish there was one product that could do it all, but these products all have their strengths and weaknesses. Another unique looper is the TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch, which has great vocal harmony and effects.
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sleepingangel
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 pm
Wow that's really interesting regarding both loopers and which came first etc. I had no idea. Well since I'm pretty much tapped out in the pocketbook dept after getting both if these in such a short time frame. I think in going to just do as you say and make the most if each of their features.
In the process I hope to meld both forms of music that I love electronic and acoustic. Thanks again for your wealth if info
Maria
In the process I hope to meld both forms of music that I love electronic and acoustic. Thanks again for your wealth if info
Maria
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1_inch_punch
- Senior Member
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:17 am
^Yes, I've used the Behringer (FCB-1010) for this purpose many times and it works great live. The only thing you need to do with your hand is hit the SAMPLING button in advance. Everything else can be controlled with MIDI via your pedal.
EMX-1, KP3, MachineDrum UW+, Octatrack, FCB-1010 Pedal, Mackie PA, Taylor T5
http://dubathonic.bandcamp.com/
http://dubathonic.bandcamp.com/
The new Boss RC-505 loopstation is going to trump all other loopers for quite a while. See Korg, this is what happens when you rest on your laurels and don't make significant improvements to your products for many years. A competitor will leapfrog you and you'll lose your market leading position and become a follower. The KP3+ and KoPro+ were BS updates, as were the Electribe SD updates.
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1_inch_punch
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:17 am