Kronos vs Komplete (and then some)

[Corgy]

2. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't think Forte likes Kontakt a lot. If I have a bunch of libraries loaded (e.g. Scarbee Rhodes, Alicia's Keys, Session Strings Pro) it seems to take a lot of time to switch between scenes, even if all that changes is a couple of mute switches and the keyrange. For instance switching between a piano and strings layer and a piano and strings split takes time even though they're the same sounds layered differently. More specifically, "sometimes" it complains when I try to save my setup, saying Kontakt doesn't report its setup size correctly and this may corrupt the rack. This would make the whole concept unusable.

My experience with Forte and samplers like Kontakt is that, if you switch from one scene to the next all the samples are purged/loaded out/in the computer RAM. If you start to play before all new samples are loaded completely you will have some kind of poor sound or drop-outs. Also there may be a bad synchronisation with the midi keyboard.

There is a way out of this ... but I guess, it depends on the workload demanded by a scene and how you have organised and use your rack.

Forte 3 can prelaod and keep samples and presets in RAM:
1) go to "Preferences/Scene Options"
2) activate the "Add Plugin" button
3) add desired plugins as needed

This worked fine for me having about 5 to 8 Kontakt instruments loaded. Since I do not use them all in each scene, I can't tell if there might still some problems remaining. If I don't use an instrument in a scene, it's muted in this scene only. It's complete preset and samples are conserved. Just hit the mute-button again and it's ready to go. After establishing this process, Forte/Kontakt issues have been allmost gone.

[JeffB63]

I've always used IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads for my on stage rigs and find them to be bullet proof.

I've only deviated twice.:

1) Tried a Sony Vaio and it was a complete nightmare!

2) Built myself a Rackmount which worked great but ruined my back!

I now use a Lenovo W530 with i7 3720QM, 16Gb ram, Samsung 840 Evo 120Gb system drive and Samsung 840 Pro 256Gb sample storage drive.

I use Win7 x64 and Cantabile Performer with Halion Sonic 2, Omnisphere, Korg Legacy Digital, MusicLab RealLPC, Amplitube 3 and OPX ProII.

Depending on which live project I'm doing I may also use Kontakt 5 with the factory library and Vir2 Mojo Horns.

I control the rig with a Roland A-37 and my Kronos 61 using either my Roland Sonic Cell or ESI DrDac Nano as the audio interface.

Two regrets:

1) I sold my Kurzweil PC3 when I was out of work. I really miss it's lovely semi-weighted keyboard - heavier than most but lighter than a piano weighted keybed.

2) I sold my Motif XS with firewire before I realised that the Kronos has no ASIO driver (shame on you Korg). Ideal for live use having the audio and MIDI connected by one cable.

[SanderXpander]

Thanks Corgy, that sounds like it may help! I'll try. It seemd strange to me that it would reload even if I used the exact same instrument but with a different keyboard zoning.

Jeff, your laptop is about a year newer than mine (i7 2670QM, 8GB RAM, 120GB system SSD and 750GB regular HDD for the rest) but I have yet to run into its limits. I really don't play that many instruments simultaneously, it's just that I need a bunch to be ready to play quickly.

[Corgy]

Thanks Corgy, that sounds like it may help! I'll try. It seemd strange to me that it would reload even if I used the exact same instrument but with a different keyboard zoning.

Jeff, your laptop is about a year newer than mine (i7 2670QM, 8GB RAM, 120GB system SSD and 750GB regular HDD for the rest) but I have yet to run into its limits. I really don't play that many instruments simultaneously, it's just that I need a bunch to be ready to play quickly.

You are wellcome. Just tell us about your experience ...

[MoonMusic]

I don't have any experience with VEP....I didn't even downloa the demo....That was mainly because I decided I'd be better off getting the Muse Research quad core instead of running VEP on a single core i5 in my MacBook Pro because it just wasn't powerful enough to do lot's of plugins at once....I think I made the right choice....I won't recommend buying one without trying it out first but I definitely would not write the Muse Research module off as overpriced....You can easily set up your VST settings at home and then just take the 2 rack space module with you...You can set up what they call presets which would be kind of like the equivalent of seq/song mode in Kronos = ability to save 16 instruments (can be 16 different VST's) and 2 separate audio VSTs like a reverb on vocal and Guitar Rig 5 on guitar...You would also put a "tag" on them which is the equivalent of category on Kronos but you can actually name your category/tag like LIVE....Once that is set up, you only need the rack itself....You turn the bottom dial to get into your category/tag = LIVE....When you find your live category, you can easily find your presets = Live 1 through Live whatever you programmed by scrolling the top knob, when you find the preset you want to use, simply push the knob in til it clicks and it very quickly loads that preset....It works very much like hardware at that point....Like I said, I'm never going to recommend you buy anything but it is definitely worth looking at as a live solution....moon

[SanderXpander]

That does sound pretty nice, I have to admit. It's just that I can build an i7 4770 based system with 16GB RAM and 750GB of SSD storage in a small quiet case for around a thousand bucks. Then just remote desktop in with my iPad if I need to make changes and for the rest use midi control.

The difference in operation isn't worth the huge price difference to me. I don't think they even do a Haswell Receptor yet?

[MoonMusic]

You'd have to read the Muse page for specifics...I'm not exactly sure what they are using to be honest....It sounds like you have a plan in place and $1000 is a lot less than what I paid for the muse for sure.....If you want, name off 4 or 5 VI's from Spectrasonics / K9 Ultimate libraries and patch names and I can make a quick video to show how to program the presets and then bring them up quickly in standalone mode....Only if you'd like to see how it works....It's pretty easy so I don't mind....Otherwise no worries......moon

[SanderXpander]

Thanks, that's a really nice offer! Honestly, I'm intrigued, but I think I should read/google/youtube a bit more before you make me any custom videos!
I don't know either which CPU they use exactly (they don't specify) but I expect their top model is a 2770 or a 3770, both of which are slightly slower than a 4770. Actually the 3770 is probably still the better choice since it runs a little cooler and the difference in performance isn't very big.

I'm making some progress with Forte by the way. Setting Kontakt to not unload between scenes solved my issue, many thanks to Corgy. There are still no smooth sound transitions like on the Kronos but flicking between patches is pretty easy and quick now. Forte also correctly remembers any changes I make in plugins between scenes, which is sometimes useful and sometimes not. And it doesn't for anything I change inside of Kontakt anyway. But at least it's letting me have two different Rhodes sounds using one Scarbee instance and one Vintage Keyboard FX instance.

As for sounds, I ditched the Session Strings Pro in favor of Cakewalk SI-Strings. They sound less real in a production situation where I could edit all the articulations of Session Strings but they're infinitely more playable. Not super excited about my Session Horns either but they'll do, for now. Next up is a Wurli (Scarbee) and an organ. I'll try Vintage Organs for now but I may spring for VB3 while I'm at it.

After that I'll have most of my basics covered and I can dive into the synth parts. Should be interesting, not sure yet whether I'll love or hate it.

STATUS: Getting somewhere.

[MoonMusic]

Sounds like your making progress!....I thought about it after I said about the video and it probably wouldn't be a good comparison to something like the VIP anyway....I had them set me up a custom Qu4ttro (without the presonus rack) so the quad processor and 16 gig RAM is going to give it quite a significant boast in performance over a VIP unit....It sounds like you're far enough along that you're not turning back anyway .....enjoy....moon

[apex]

Have you heard if or tried rax by audiophile enginnering ?

http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/rax/

[SanderXpander]

Neither. Seems to be Mac only too. I'm sticking with Windows unless I can't for some reason.

[Corgy]

Great to hear that you are making progress.