PA 3 X Arranger or Kronos X?

[kenackr]

It's about time for me to add another instrument and I'm seriously stuck choosing between 2 candidates: a PA3 X (or other) arranger or a Kronos X.

The ultimate goal is song creation, not playing live in a venue. My thought is to have a tool that enables me to craft the bones of a song more quickly, even if I have to later transport it in some fashion to the Oasys or a Kronos at least via midi tracks in Digital Performer 8.

On the one hand, I've never had an arranger, but the concept that the backing tracks are already down and one can noodle around with developing melodies intrigues me. It's not that I can't develop backing tracks, I've been doing that for years.

What I find with the Oasys is that many ideas are sparked from Karma combies that form a suitable basis as backing which lets me focus more on adding melody.

One of the things that concern me about arrangers: is the sonic fidelity comparable to the Oasys or Kronos? I suspect not and that might be a deal breaker for me, but maybe not if I'm going to be using the midi tracks developed on the arranger in DP8 that can then drive either the O or K.

Another thing is how much variability is there in the "rhythm section" when you might want to punctuate it with gaps instead of sounding like a relentless metronome? (think more like Karma) I'm talking a top of the line unit like a Pa3x, not an entry level one.

Regarding the Kronos X, it seems to have a much larger availability to import new sounds than the Oasys does, which is always good. What I don't know is how difficult it is to combine it with the Oasys as Mike Conway has done. Have there been any significant changes in Karma on it or are significantly more Karmafied combies available for it?

I realize that at some point the Oasys will die and then I'll be forced to move to the Kronos X or whatever takes it place.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy both an arranger & a Kronos X at the same time.

I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on which unit to go with.

[karmathanever]

Hi kenackr

Your poll is really impossible to answer as these 2 keyboards are very different - I have both keyboards and there is hardly any overlap in them - they are very very different..

You really need to ask yourself if you need an arranger keyboard - Kronos is NOT an arranger.
So if you want all the fabulous features of the arranger (PA3X) like styles, intros, fills endings, vocal harmoniser, etc.. etc.. then PA3X is your only choice out of these 2 keyboards.

Seriously, if the "backing" styles are a "nice-to-have" but your real emphasis is on workstation, sound creation/editing in depth, access to brilliant sound engines, then Kronos is definitely he answer. The KARMA feature in the Kronos does enable a type of "arranger" capability and can also be programmed to suit but please don't think of Kronos as an arranger - it definitely is not.

I have owned the Karma and the M3 but not Oasys so I can't comment on that. From your post, I am feeling that the Kronos is the solution for you.

Just to also confirm, the PA3X does not have monotonous repetitive styles like its competitors - the Chord Variation and chord-type assignments within the style structure can leave you with some veyy nice "real" and authentic sounding styles. An example: each VARiation (1-4) can comprise 6 chord variations (CVs) up to 32 measures long - these can then be assigned to CHORD-TYPES (e.g. minor/major/7th/dim etc) meaning that whilst playing when you change to a different chord-type, the PA3X instantly plays that relative CV.

Hope this helps.

Pete

[kenackr]

Thanks for the reply!

The Oasys is the product that the Kronos was derived from. There are a few differences, but essentially the Kronos can be thought of as an updated but cheaper Oasys, so I'm a lot more comfortable with what it is than an arranger.

I think my dilemma is more that I've never had any arranger, so I really don't know what they are like or can do. I've watched most of the U tube videos, but those don't really tell you what the sound quality is like compared to the Oasys/Kronos. Further, even though the tutorial videos seem well done, if you don't have a PA3X sitting there to follow those hands on wise, it doesn't snap into focus or stay in focus for long.

Unfortunately, the dealers in this area do not stock arrangers and it is a 350 mile roundtrip drive to the closest stores that do. Even if there was a store that was closer, they are usually not the place where one can spend enough time in a quiet environment to get know what you are buying. Hence my question.

Since you own both, would you comment on what you perceive the sound quality to be of the PA3x versus the Kronos? I realize the Kronos has sample streaming so certain sounds like pianos can come through as close as one can get technically now. But what about the other backing sounds of the PA3X : drums, strings, guitars, organs, brass and other orchestral sounds?

When I read the PA3X forum, there seems to be a lot of owners who mention problem areas that have been long standing issues, but then again I also read quite a few that seem on balance relatively happy. What do perceive is the responsiveness of Korg Italy in making improvements and increasing reliability of the PA3x?

If my goal was to play at local venues as a solo or duo act there would be no dilemma, the choice would be clear.

I do find it interesting though that the price of a PA3X arranger is higher than a Kronos X and yet Korg Italy hasn't figured out that more memory (for more samples) or higher quality samples could be a more updated way to go.

[karmathanever]

Hi again

Since you own both, would you comment on what you perceive the sound quality to be of the PA3x versus the Kronos? I realize the Kronos has sample streaming so certain sounds like pianos can come through as close as one can get technically now. But what about the other backing sounds of the PA3X : drums, strings, guitars, organs, brass and other orchestral sounds?

Generally I find the PA3X sounds very nice and very acceptable as they are. Kronos wins hands down regarding Tonewheel Organs (CX3) and has better drums.
As an arranger, the PA3X soars above anything else on the market. But I repeat, the sounds are very nice and also very configurable. Its sampling capabilities and in built tools are also very good.
As a simple answer to your question comparing sounds I say Kronos is better - but it does have several sound engines vs. PA3X's single sound engine.

When I read the PA3X forum, there seems to be a lot of owners who mention problem areas that have been long standing issues, but then again I also read quite a few that seem on balance relatively happy. What do perceive is the responsiveness of Korg Italy in making improvements and increasing reliability of the PA3x?

Yes, I agree that it is disconcerting when you see "problems" but they are very few and probably less than Kronos reported problems.
Korg Italy have been great over the years (many years even since the i-seires arrangers -15 years ago)… they have provided many new enhancements and features for free and actually respond in these forums from time to time. I personally think they are cut above the other manufacturers in this regard.

If my goal was to play at local venues as a solo or duo act there would be no dilemma, the choice would be clear.

Absolutely.. but if you have been in love with the Oasys then moving to PA3X only may leave you wanting. However, as an arranger, I don't think you can get better…

I do find it interesting though that the price of a PA3X arranger is higher than a Kronos X and yet Korg Italy hasn't figured out that more memory (for more samples) or higher quality samples could be a more updated way to go.

Yes agree - but I don't think Korg Italy and Korg Japan&USA work in sync with these issues. I was shocked that my Kronos was less than 2/3 of the price of my PA3X

But I absolutely love both of these keyboards.

Good luck with your choices.
Please don't hesitate to ask for any specifics if I can help.

Cheers
Pete

[Dikikeys]

I don't have a dog in this race (still rockin' the old Triton for Korg sounds!), but my only advice would be to PLAY them both!

Which one, out of the box, does what you most want it to do?

A lot will depend on what kind of music you wish to write... If it's more established, older styles, then the arranger is possibly your best bet for quick songwriting. Try the styles in the genre you prefer, see if they inspire you, and if there is enough of them (other arranger makers may have a bigger selection, which for songwriting is a huge plus) to allow you plenty of choice.

If more up to date, modern music is what you are shooting for, you may find the WS your best bet. Loop and arp musics are easier put together on the Kronos, and final results may be almost up to full release quality.

But if you are a bit older, looking for slightly more dated genres, I think you'll find the ease and quick production (not to mention quick audition of alternative styles, should you like the chord structure but want to quickly try a variety of styles) swings the vote in the arranger's favor.

It's all too easy to make a recommendation, but without knowing what you want to achieve musically, it's a guess at best.

Try before you buy...!