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Discussion relating to the Korg Pa3X Arranger.

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Isramozart
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Post by Isramozart »

Nemik wrote:Yes, is possible to record midi data directly to style using midi in connection.
if this is what you need to know.

But maybe I'm wrong, but this Post is more to disadvantage Pa3x, not to get help, at least this how I feel ,so I'm out ,.....can't help it .
:)
If you will be so kind and explain in detail how to connect to record MIDI input .... I will rename my post - the disadvantages into advantages of Korg. :lol:

Now I have connected MIDI out of computer to MIDI in Korg.
All 16 tracks Midi File playing correctly on Logic and sounding correct through the Korg. (All MIDI channels configured correctly)
When I enter RECORD mode (style) Korg ceases to receive a signal from midi input. Exclusively from the keyboard. HELP ME, Please! WHAT TO DO NEXT?
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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

Sorry but cannot understand why you would want to do that as opposed to the logical approach of import.

Are you trying to "record" a whole style element in one hit via MIDI "play" from PC?
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Thoraldus
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Post by Thoraldus »

Isramozart,

Have you read page 28 of the PA3X Advanced Edit Manual? You can find the Advanced Edit manual on this page

I would suggest you EXPORT an SMF (MIDI) file from a STYLE on your PA3X, then open that midi file on your PC MIDI editor. You can then see the structure needed to properly IMPORT MIDI data to a STYLE.

By the way, your title for this thread might put off many of the people in this forum who would otherwise be very helpful. I would humbly suggest you change it to something more appropriate like, "Need help creating styles from MIDI on my PA3X" ;-)
<i>”It’s easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself.”
<br>Johann Sebastian Bach
</i>
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Korg Kronos2, Casio MZ-X500, PA600, AKAI MPD32, M-Audio Oxygen 25, ZOOM H6, Cakewalk Sonar
Isramozart
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Post by Isramozart »

karmathanever wrote:Sorry but cannot understand why you would want to do that as opposed to the logical approach of import.

Are you trying to "record" a whole style element in one hit via MIDI "play" from PC?
First of all thank you for your attention.
I would not like to discuss what is more logical approach and what less.
You probably agree with me that there are many technical differences between various brands of instruments. For example flute sound on Yamaha and Korg sounds different, has different dynamics or different times of attack, or expression. It is desirable to adapt the sound track on stage before recording it to the new instrument. This requires real-time control in pre-recording mode. Besides, the connection of one device directly to another for transmission of information has always been the fastest way.
Do not forget that the preparation of the SMF for import into Korg has many limitations (format 0, markers, replacing midi channels, etc.). And it takes a lot of time.
Why all the headache that you call logical approach?
When you can just reconfigure the MIDI channels on the transmitter, set the synchronization and record all the tracks "in one hit via MIDI"
And so if this is not possible, it is a very serious limitation by Korg. Then such a tool can not be considered as professional. Sorry.
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Thoraldus
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Post by Thoraldus »

Isramozart wrote:
karmathanever wrote:Sorry but cannot understand why you would want to do that as opposed to the logical approach of import.

Are you trying to "record" a whole style element in one hit via MIDI "play" from PC?
First of all thank you for your attention.
I would not like to discuss what is more logical approach and what less.
You probably agree with me that there are many technical differences between various brands of instruments. For example flute sound on Yamaha and Korg sounds different, has different dynamics or different times of attack, or expression. It is desirable to adapt the sound track on stage before recording it to the new instrument. This requires real-time control in pre-recording mode. Besides, the connection of one device directly to another for transmission of information has always been the fastest way.
Do not forget that the preparation of the SMF for import into Korg has many limitations (format 0, markers, replacing midi channels, etc.). And it takes a lot of time.
Why all the headache that you call logical approach?
When you can just reconfigure the MIDI channels on the transmitter, set the synchronization and record all the tracks "in one hit via MIDI"
And so if this is not possible, it is a very serious limitation by Korg. Then such a tool can not be considered as professional. Sorry.
You just need to accept that it is eminently logical to use the power of a PC Midi editor to create the MIDI source file for a Style and then "in one hit IMPORT that midi file" to create the style. It's is much easier than it sounds, believe me. I've been able to manually convert Yamaha styles to Korg in less than 15 minutes using Sonar as my editor. It's pretty trivial once you have done it a few times. I think you are creating your own headaches unecessarily.
<i>”It’s easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself.”
<br>Johann Sebastian Bach
</i>
----------------------------------------------
Rick Stirling - Retired Electrical Engineer - Erstwhile Photographer
Korg Kronos2, Casio MZ-X500, PA600, AKAI MPD32, M-Audio Oxygen 25, ZOOM H6, Cakewalk Sonar
Isramozart
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Post by Isramozart »

Thoraldus wrote:Isramozart,

Have you read page 28 of the PA3X Advanced Edit Manual? You can find the Advanced Edit manual on this page

I would suggest you EXPORT an SMF (MIDI) file from a STYLE on your PA3X, then open that midi file on your PC MIDI editor. You can then see the structure needed to properly IMPORT MIDI data to a STYLE.

By the way, your title for this thread might put off many of the people in this forum who would otherwise be very helpful. I would humbly suggest you change it to something more appropriate like, "Need help creating styles from MIDI on my PA3X" ;-)
Thanks!
Of course! Read more than once! And created a midi file and examined it structure! And set up my midi file and successfully made its transfer to the Korg!
I just asked the question - if there is the possibility of direct recording midi stream in to the style.
What is written in both books I have read carefully
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Post by Sam CA »

Isramozart wrote: Do not forget that the preparation of the SMF for import into Korg has many limitations (format 0, markers, replacing midi channels, etc.). And it takes a lot of time.
What are you talking about??? You are totally lost here. You really need to calm down a bit.

If there's any limitation here, it's you not knowing your external sequencer well enough. Because it takes less then 20 seconds to do all these for the most complicated Style ever created for korg:

1) To export the midi file as format 0!
2) To assign the proper midi channels...
3) To set markers

An experienced user can do all this is less then 10 seconds. It might take you as an average user longer then that but not by much once you get to know your DAW.

What you're trying to do is the backwards way of handling this thing. There's so many things wrong about how you want to do this. I can write a book on that. Regardless of how good of a keyboardist you are, creating styles is a totally different animal. Once you recorded something, you would still have to go back and edit velocity and a whole bunch of stuff to make it right. It's super fast and easy to do all that in a DAW but not so much on the board.

I think I'm gonna stop here. You really need to start reading this forum. There's bunch of info about all this.
Sam

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Thoraldus
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Post by Thoraldus »

Isramozart wrote: ... snip I just asked the question - if there is the possibility of direct recording midi stream in to the style.
... snip
The answer is no and there is absolutely no rational need for it either. ;-)

Use your DAW to fine tune your style elements, then import the whole thing all at one go with the midi file from your DAW. Easy as pie! ;-) If you want, you can import individual style elements one at a time via midi files but it makes more sense (to me anyway) to import the entire style from the DAW all in one step.
<i>”It’s easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself.”
<br>Johann Sebastian Bach
</i>
----------------------------------------------
Rick Stirling - Retired Electrical Engineer - Erstwhile Photographer
Korg Kronos2, Casio MZ-X500, PA600, AKAI MPD32, M-Audio Oxygen 25, ZOOM H6, Cakewalk Sonar
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Nemik
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Post by Nemik »

Thoraldus wrote:
Isramozart wrote: ... snip I just asked the question - if there is the possibility of direct recording midi stream in to the style.
... snip
The answer is no and there is absolutely no rational need for it either. ;-)

Use your DAW to fine tune your style elements, then import the whole thing all at one go with the midi file from your DAW. Easy as pie! ;-) If you want, you can import individual style elements one at a time via midi files but it makes more sense (to me anyway) to import the entire style from the DAW all in one step.
I know the way to do using one track at time, is a trick for this, but is not easy .
Very handy to record Guitar mode using DAW. 8)
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siebenhirter
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Post by siebenhirter »

Isramozart wrote: I just asked the question - if there is the possibility of direct recording midi stream in to the style.
What is written in both books I have read carefully
As simple as the question - the arwer is: it is not possible
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

Isramozart wrote:And so if this is not possible, it is a very serious limitation by Korg. Then such a tool can not be considered as professional. Sorry.
Apology accepted :wink:

Seriously Isramozart, PLEASE calm down a little as Sam suggested.

This may be a serious limitation to you - but in several years of Korg arrangers, you're possibly the first, so if your single "requirement" here turns the PA3X into an unprofessional keyboard I think you have a serious problem in understanding the PA3X!!!

In terms of flexibility, playability, performance and recording, the PA3X is by far the very best arranger keyboard available today.
Oh yes!! of course we all have different opinions regarding sounds, but even so the PA3X is up there with the rest IMHO.

You are on a Korg forum with many excellent and supportive members who will, without question help you as best they can with any of your questions, simple or complex - it is what we like to do.
But if you are going to end every question/sentence with negative feelings about Korg, then I suggest you don't bother continuing.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but comments like above are simply immature and unjustified and just get people irritated.

We don't care if you hate Korg, we do care about helping you get together with the PA3X though.

Pete :D
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Nemik
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Post by Nemik »

karmathanever wrote:In terms of flexibility, playability, performance and recording, the PA3X is by far the very best arranger keyboard available today.
I been study all arrangers, talk to owners... you right PA3x is best now.
Some people saying TYROS 5 is best...good luck them with this :)
As a look, visual presentation yes, Yamaha did better job, but not with flexibility and recording.
I know personally people who tried Tyros, and after couple weeks return it back to store and stay with Korg Pa80 :)
but ... only creative people can see different, and only them are happy to have them.
I have only 7 months experience with Korg Pa600 , but I'm so happy with, is has infinite possibility, every day I discover something new, something what's make KORG on the top of list. :D
For those people who looks to find limitations in Arrangers, ...try YAHAHA ,
twice more cost and 3x more limitations :)
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Sam CA
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Post by Sam CA »

Also the title of this thread is false and misleading as it's only based on some WRONG assumptions. Isramozart barely knows anything about this board and apparently he's not that comfortable with external sequencers either. Clearly, this is just a user proficiency issue and has nothing to do with the keyboard's operating system.
Sam

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Post by Dikikeys »

Both sides need to calm down a hair, LOL

The OP needs to understand that, maybe his Ketron allowed simple muti-channel import directly through MIDI to the different Style Parts. It appears that the Korg does not. But he also needs to realize there are probably a huge selection of things the Korg does that the Ketron cannot. This doesn't make the Ketron a less 'professional' instrument, and no doubt, were someone coming from Korg to Ketron to go on THEIR user forum and claim the Ketron was a toy (OK, a 'non-professional arranger'!) for any of ITS shortcomings, you might see as defensive, if not a rabid 'defense' of it by its devotees.

The truth is, EVERY single arranger out there does SOMETHING better, easier, more conveniently than the others. The 'perfect' arranger does not exist, never has, never will. All we users have to do is understand this, try to find the ONE thing that we consider the most important feature (this barely qualifies as a deal-breaker, does it, as long as an efficiently DIFFERENT workflow exists?) and select the arranger that does THAT best. Then we have to be prepared to accept the baggage that comes with it. For most of us, that ONE thing is the sound...

Given a choice between a better sound, and a slightly more inconvenient way of importing multi-channel MIDI into a style editor, most people would select the former :twisted:

But getting into a spat-war with each other over this (especially when you factor in that most of the participants are arguing in a non-native language!) seems counter productive.

My take on the whole thing would be for the OP to TRY the file import system, with markers and Type0 format (something Logic can easily export) for a few weeks, get used to the workflow, and see if familiarity will speed things up, and perhaps allow him to find certain advantages in the system - there are bound to be a few. For instance, I can start by suggesting that the timing of the style will be a LOT tighter than a direct multi-channel capture, as there is always a bit of 'jitter' around multiple notes all intended to be on the exact same tick (like the start of Parts) when it's all coming down the MIDI cable at the same time.

I've done this myself (for SMF transfer, not style creation, though) and I can definitely tell you that file transfer of the sequence is tighter than simply recording the stream. Particularly with MSB, LSB, data, that often needs to be in the same order each time even though sent out on the same tick, file import is FAR better...

Just everybody back down, realize you aren't all conversing in your native languages, and understand that yes, to someone JUST starting out on a new OS, there are a LOT of things that can leave you scratching your heads and going 'WHY?!' :roll: That you may have got used to it by now doesn't make it any less difficult to the newcomer.
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Post by keyboard »

Diki

As always, very well said !!!! That was a most informative read with a lot of good common sense....

Ron
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