Korg Forums

Lol!

@apex - sounds exactly like what Roland did with the JP-80 to get to the JP-50!

I hope they don't make the mistake for a Kronos LE to remove aftertouch, that was THE reason I wanted the Kronos faster after having an M50.

michelkeijzers wrote:I hope they don't make the mistake for a Kronos LE to remove aftertouch, that was THE reason I wanted the Kronos faster after having an M50.

Good point Michel - seems crazy that Roland left AfterTouch out of the JP-50; just doesn't make sense! Is AfterTouch THAT expensive to implement? Maybe it is. I don't know. Or is it just difference-engineering? Leave it out so the Jp-80 looks better so people make the stretch to the JP-80 price-point?

Who knows what goes on in the decision-making of such things!

Edited to add - oops am hijacking thread I realise - sorry!. Back on topic now... Kronos II

danmusician wrote:Users come to this forum all the time hoping to find out that they can use their patches from 01/W, Trinity, Triton, OAYSYS, M3 in their Kronos, only to be disappointed.

I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

I think we are far more likely to see a V2.0 OS update for Kronos, and/or the inclusion of new engines, even as paid-for options...long before Korg releases a new flagship workstation. Strategically....they really cannot produce and release such hardware too fast....not only because of the R&D and production involved....but they also have to consider the user demand and viability of such an large ticket item on the open market. Assuming that Korg has captured a decent chunk of its user base into a purchase of a new Kronos....how realistic is it that those same buyers are going to drop another >$3K on a next generation flagship workstation "too soon"? Its much more realistic, from a profit generation point of view, to put out incremental add-ons and upgrades, at a lower price point, to keep the user-base's wallets open. Then after a 5 year-ish cycle....come out with something truly new and enhanced. But it takes time for technology (and the component costs of new technology to come down) to march on to the next big thing.

RonF wrote:I think we are far more likely to see a V2.0 OS update for Kronos, and/or the inclusion of new engines, even as paid-for options...long before Korg releases a new flagship workstation. Strategically....they really cannot produce and release such hardware too fast....not only because of the R&D and production involved....but they also have to consider the user demand and viability of such an large ticket item on the open market. Assuming that Korg has captured a decent chunk of its user base into a purchase of a new Kronos....how realistic is it that those same buyers are going to drop another >$3K on a next generation flagship workstation "too soon"? Its much more realistic, from a profit generation point of view, to put out incremental add-ons and upgrades, at a lower price point, to keep the user-base's wallets open. Then after a 5 year-ish cycle....come out with something truly new and enhanced. But it takes time for technology (and the component costs of new technology to come down) to march on to the next big thing.

Very true, and now with more software related synths, it is also more easy for Korg to update functionality.

danatkorg wrote:

danmusician wrote:Users come to this forum all the time hoping to find out that they can use their patches from 01/W, Trinity, Triton, OAYSYS, M3 in their Kronos, only to be disappointed.

I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

True. Btw, mostly I don't mind much that it is not compatible backward, because it is a very good opportunity to start using new sounds. On the other hand, for people who are in studio work mostly like to keep their playback possibilities as is.

danatkorg wrote:

danmusician wrote:Users come to this forum all the time hoping to find out that they can use their patches from 01/W, Trinity, Triton, OAYSYS, M3 in their Kronos, only to be disappointed.

I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

Yes, if you already have OASYS libraries - which suggests you need to be an OASYS owner before you are a Kronos owner. Is that the marketing ploy of Korg nowadays? Have the old one before you get the new one?

As you well know, commercial 3rd parties have ceased provision of OASYS sounds as the Kronos authorisation process is not present in OASYS versions eg Karo. So a slightly misleading statement there, danatkorg.

Yes. TECHNICALLY, Kronos can load OASYS sounds. COMMERCIALLY, no they can't because you HAVE to buy the Kronos authorisation-compatible versions as the easy-to-load OASYS versions are no longer available.

For example - I have the OASYS KMC. I can break copyright rules and give it to a Kronos user and the Kronos will load it up no problem. However, if you try and buy the OASYS KMC now; you can't. (Although Karo in posts in KF some time ago say 'email us' which suggests there may be circumvention of their agreement with Korg - along with many other questionable traits that I would be surprised if you don't already know about.) Please note - this is not a comment about the quality of Karo libraries - they are fantastic (need individualisaton, yes but great nonetheless). It's how they do business should be your worry.

Right - or wrong? Please use the Karo example in your defence.

I accept however that independent sound designers outwith authorisation protection from Korg who produce OASYS sounds, can have their sounds reliably loaded into the Kronos.

michelkeijzers wrote:On the other hand, for people who are in studio work mostly like to keep their playback possibilities as is.

This is the nightmare for me! I produced several tracks with the M3 and the Radias - I can't replicate them now! I have to use existing equipment to (sometimes) do better and (other times) be disappointed; so the music often changes due to the available equipment. Even the mighty O can't replicate exactly some of the simple Radias sequences...

cello wrote:

danatkorg wrote:

danmusician wrote:Users come to this forum all the time hoping to find out that they can use their patches from 01/W, Trinity, Triton, OAYSYS, M3 in their Kronos, only to be disappointed.

I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

BUT - commercial 3rd parties have ceased provision of OASYS sounds as the Kronos authorisation process is not present in OASYS versions eg Karo. So a slightly misleading statement there, danatkorg.

Yes. TECHNICALLY, Kronos can load OASYS sounds. COMMERCIALLY, no they can't because you HAVE to buy the Kronos authorisation-compatible versions as the easy-to-load OASYS versions are no longer available.

For example - I have the OASYS KMC. I can break copyright rules and give it to a Kronos user and the Kronos will load it up no problem. However, if you try and buy the OASYS KMC now; you can't. (Although Karo in posts in KF some time ago say 'email us' which suggests there may be circumvention of their agreement with Korg - along with many other questionable traits that I would be surprised if you don't know about.) Please note - this is not a comment about the quality of Karo libraries - they are fantastic (need individualisaton, yes but great nonetheless). It's how they do business should be your worry.

Right - or wrong? Please use the Karo example in your defence.

I accept however that independent sound designers outwith authorisation protection from Korg who produce OASYS sounds, can have their sounds reliably loaded into the Kronos.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but you're wrong I'm afraid, and I'm deeply disturbed by your apparent assertion that I was in any way intentionally misleading.

This discussion had nothing whatsoever to do with commercial availability, and everything to do with actual technical compatibility. That was the context of my response.

You seem to be assuming some conspiracy under which third parties are no longer making OASYS products available, and in which Korg somehow plays a part. This is patently not the case.

You specifically call on me to provide a "defense" for myself, which indicates that you intended to attack me. Perhaps you might wish to reconsider.

- Dan

cello wrote:

danatkorg wrote:

danmusician wrote:Users come to this forum all the time hoping to find out that they can use their patches from 01/W, Trinity, Triton, OAYSYS, M3 in their Kronos, only to be disappointed.

I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

Yes, if you already have OASYS libraries - which suggests you need to be an OASYS owner before you are a Kronos owner. Is that the marketing ploy of Korg nowadays? Have the old one before you get the new one?

As you well know, commercial 3rd parties have ceased provision of OASYS sounds as the Kronos authorisation process is not present in OASYS versions eg Karo. So a slightly misleading statement there, danatkorg.

Yes. TECHNICALLY, Kronos can load OASYS sounds. COMMERCIALLY, no they can't because you HAVE to buy the Kronos authorisation-compatible versions as the easy-to-load OASYS versions are no longer available.

For example - I have the OASYS KMC. I can break copyright rules and give it to a Kronos user and the Kronos will load it up no problem. However, if you try and buy the OASYS KMC now; you can't. (Although Karo in posts in KF some time ago say 'email us' which suggests there may be circumvention of their agreement with Korg - along with many other questionable traits that I would be surprised if you don't already know about.) Please note - this is not a comment about the quality of Karo libraries - they are fantastic (need individualisaton, yes but great nonetheless). It's how they do business should be your worry.

Right - or wrong? Please use the Karo example in your defence.

I accept however that independent sound designers outwith authorisation protection from Korg who produce OASYS sounds, can have their sounds reliably loaded into the Kronos.

I think you are over reaching and possibly mixing apples and oranges.

Karo is a 3rd party and a separate company. You seem to have an expectation that Karo created libs for the OASYS should be automatically available for the Kronos. I would not expect that, at all.

What I understand is that any Korg created libs for the Oasys are available for the Kronos. Thats cool and no one should have a problem with that.

Fair comment danatkorg - I apologise. It was not a call on you to defend. It was Korg's position I referred to and I regret any personal inference or implication. Please forgive.

Please accept my post as my continued, and unending dismay and annoyance about certain history (of which you are well aware) - I cannot reconcile the difference between technical backward compatibility and Korg's insistence on commercial authorisation requirements to avail oneself of those sounds.

This is a limitation not imposed on OASYS users.

cello wrote:Fair comment danatkorg - I apologise. It was not a call on you to defend. It was Korg's position I referred to and I regret any personal inference or implication. Please forgive.

Thanks, Cello. No worries.

- Dan

GregC wrote:

cello wrote:

danatkorg wrote: I agree that it would be nice to load sounds from earlier Korg synths (such as the Triton) into the KRONOS. Note, however, that the KRONOS already loads all OASYS sounds.

Yes, if you already have OASYS libraries - which suggests you need to be an OASYS owner before you are a Kronos owner. Is that the marketing ploy of Korg nowadays? Have the old one before you get the new one?

As you well know, commercial 3rd parties have ceased provision of OASYS sounds as the Kronos authorisation process is not present in OASYS versions eg Karo. So a slightly misleading statement there, danatkorg.

Yes. TECHNICALLY, Kronos can load OASYS sounds. COMMERCIALLY, no they can't because you HAVE to buy the Kronos authorisation-compatible versions as the easy-to-load OASYS versions are no longer available.

For example - I have the OASYS KMC. I can break copyright rules and give it to a Kronos user and the Kronos will load it up no problem. However, if you try and buy the OASYS KMC now; you can't. (Although Karo in posts in KF some time ago say 'email us' which suggests there may be circumvention of their agreement with Korg - along with many other questionable traits that I would be surprised if you don't already know about.) Please note - this is not a comment about the quality of Karo libraries - they are fantastic (need individualisaton, yes but great nonetheless). It's how they do business should be your worry.

Right - or wrong? Please use the Karo example in your defence.

I accept however that independent sound designers outwith authorisation protection from Korg who produce OASYS sounds, can have their sounds reliably loaded into the Kronos.

I think you are over reaching and possibly mixing apples and oranges.

Karo is a 3rd party and a separate company. You seem to have an expectation that Karo created libs for the OASYS should be automatically available for the Kronos. I would not expect that, at all.

What I understand is that any Korg created libs for the Oasys are available for the Kronos. Thats cool and no one should have a problem with that.

Sorry GregC (seems a night of apologies!) - I do not in any way mean that Karo's OASYS libraries should be automatically available for the Kronos. Quite the contrary. With the arrival of the Kronos, the OASYS libraries were no longer for sale. The implication is that if you wanted to be part of the Korg authorisation process you need to stop OASYS sales - as they are unprotected so Korg would not get their cut of revenue. So as an OASYS user I could no longer buy those libraries as the producer was focussing on the Kronos - that means OASYS users lose out...

Korg-created libraries - I have no issue. The OASYS platform benefitted from several library extensions.

danatkorg wrote:

cello wrote:Fair comment danatkorg - I apologise. It was not a call on you to defend. It was Korg's position I referred to and I regret any personal inference or implication. Please forgive.

Thanks, Cello. No worries.

- Dan

Appreciated