A few answers

RC-IA · Post by **RC-IA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:15 pm

cello wrote:
RC-IA wrote:Nanopad is not supported, but they have talked about it (it does mean they will do it)

Don't understand how you can have such faith when there is so much evidence to show that this faith in Korg goes completely and utterly unrewarded.

now.

You should read again what you quoted from me !!!

Personnaly, i don't about care pads or the nanopad, if i really want some i plud a midi pad hardware like akai ones or my NI maschine hardware

cello · Post by **cello** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:34 pm

RC-IA wrote:
cello wrote:
RC-IA wrote:Nanopad is not supported, but they have talked about it (it does mean they will do it)

Don't understand how you can have such faith when there is so much evidence to show that this faith in Korg goes completely and utterly unrewarded.

now.
You should read again what you quoted from me !!!

Personnaly, i don't about care pads or the nanopad, if i really want some i plud a midi pad hardware like akai ones or my NI maschine hardware

Sorry if I misunderstood you! But you seemed to say that because they are talking about it, it means they will do it. Did I get you wrongly? Apologies if I did - no offense meant

RC-IA · Post by **RC-IA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:47 pm

No, it's me, forgot the word NOT . So apologies from me.

But you are rude cello, no company is perfect, as nobody. Maybe they have learned.

cello · Post by **cello** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:59 pm

RC-IA wrote:No, it's me, forgot the word NOT . So apologies from me.

But you are rude cello, no company is perfect, as nobody. Maybe they have learned.

Ah - that explains it; we're fine then

Yes, maybe I'm a little rude but I hope not in an unreasonable way. Correct, no company is perfect - like Toyota (which I know has excellent quality assurance practices) recalled thousands of cars because the brakes didn't work. I get that. But what defines a company is what it does when the customers are (understandably) unhappy with how they've been treated. Toyota recalled the cars, fixed them at their cost and hopefully fixed the problem in manufacturing!

Korg on the other hand have been advised of things that should be improved, things they've done to upset their customers... and has done nothing - other than to release a new product in which it's (mostly) all fixed! And if you want to have your problem fixed you have to sell your now de-valued instrument (because of the fixed one) at a low price, then buy a mass-produced version with a couple of extras - which still costs $3,500 - having already spent up to $7,500

So Kronos buyers get a good version at $3,500 and O users, to get the 'fixed' version, have to spend (up to) $11,000 (ie OASYS new price + Kronos new price).

See where I'm coming from now? Hopefully not being rude about it - just plain facts and logic.

(Sorry everyone - just realised I sound like ozy!!!! )

RC-IA · Post by **RC-IA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:27 pm

Cello, i understand you about the money thing, i mean i fully understand it for the guys who bought the oasys last year, new or a high priced second hand one. But for those who bought it in 2005 or 2006, well, that's kind of normal we lose more than half of the price since 5 years, that's a normal product depreciation ( good word?). It's kind of like the french government that can help you up to 7500€ on loan interests to buy a house if you sign your loan before the 31/12/2010, but won't help you if you signed it from january the first 2011! So you lose 7500€ just for one day! What i mean is limits are always against someone, korg couldn't wait for all of us to be ready to accept a new workstation better than the oasys.

cello · Post by **cello** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:41 pm

RC-IA wrote:Cello, i understand you about the money thing, i mean i fully understand it for the guys who bought the oasys last year, new or a high priced second hand one. But for those who bought it in 2005 or 2006, well, that's kind of normal we lose more than half of the price since 5 years, that's a normal product depreciation ( good word?). It's kind of like the french government that can help you up to 7500€ on loan interests to buy a house if you sign your loan before the 31/12/2010, but won't help you if you signed it from january the first 2011! So you lose 7500€ just for one day! What i mean is limits are always against someone, korg couldn't wait for all of us to be ready to accept a new workstation better than the oasys.

Depreciation? Yes, good word. I accept that for something that's been around a while - of course; that is reality. Everything de-values over time - like cars. But no manufacturer says buy this car - you don't need another one, we'll just keep upgrading this one! That's kind of what Korg said with the OASYS. Until they said 'Hmmm. Sorry. we're not making any money so we don't want to play any more'.

Then they introduce a new car (the Kronos) like it's a brand new idea ('game changer') without a single consideration for those who originally bought into the vision.

But the guys with the old car (the O) are now stuck with something that is almost worthless. They didn't get what was promised, it was pulled from production much earlier than Korg indicated and then to end it all, they introduce something that de-values the car.

Korg is trustworthy? Yeah, right.

PS - Don't like the sound of that government loan! I guess such things have to have a cutover date (like retirement age here in the UK) but still, it hurts when it's changed - like what Korg does...

RC-IA · Post by **RC-IA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:55 pm

If korg can't update oasys, maybe they could make aspecial kronos price (50% off) for oasys owners who wants to buy it. based on the actual inscription on korguser.net. I'm not concerned since i sold my expensive oasys almost three years ago when they discontinue it, i was so angry. but it's the instrument with the one i made my best tracks and the fact that kronos can read oasys files is maybe to make buy one as soon as i can.

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:01 pm

Rich and Dan,
It's great having you two onboard!

I switched from the XS to the M3 and much prefer the sounds and OS on the M3, so I sold my XS. But one thing I miss dearly is the factory support on Motifator. com from their experts.

Yamaha did something very smart and commendable with Motifator. They found 3d parties that had their own wares to sell, and made a mutually beneficial arrangement so that not only is there a robust website chock full helpful tips and advanced usage of their boards, but there's also a full marketplace, one place you can go and easily see/buy new sounds, accessories, etc. And at least to my understanding, 3d parties have done the work of building the website, setting up the marketplace, etc., and I'm guessing that their net cost for creating this collaboration is relatively low (esp. if interested 3d parties are doing a lot of the leg work).

As well demonstrated by the Apple store and others, having a good place to buy can be a MAJOR part of the appeal of a product. And the reverse is true: I often FEEL like I'm in a ghost town on this forum, and that Korg has no long term investment in this market and has a very shortsighted idea of customer support (shortsighted even from Korgs point of view: Motifator inspires confidence, sales, the lack of presence and marketplace makes the M3 feel like just 1 more overly technological product with no strategic involvement with the user base).

As I'm sure you're well aware, there's a lot of hard feelings about the abandonment of the Oayses, and as an M3 user I feel like an orphan- no one checks in from the factory these days, no apparent heed whatsoever for a product that until recently was the top workstation. All other things being equal, I would much rather buy from Yamaha than Korg because of the kind of support they provide.

I know Korg will do extremely well with the Kronos. Please respect yourself (as a company) and have at the very least one factory expert whos job it is to visit the forum. On the Motifator site, Athan and Phil (BadMister) are top dogs, but they make it clear that they don't make the decisions, Yamaha Japan does, which is a good example of having a presence, but not being held responsible for the company.

I think some perspective here is good as well: as computers become ever more powerful, and other companies are able to do create their own versions of the Kronos and Receptor, I believe two things will distinguish the front runners:
1) Customer loyalty; you treat them good, they feel taken care of/related to
2) Ease of use a la Apple

We already have one example, Lionstrac, that is preparing a competing product, that came partly from disgruntled Korg users who figured they could be a more responsive, transparent company than Korg. Esp. with the sales volume likely with the Kronos, I hope that strong support is part of the market strategy.

Bravo on having help built-in on the Kronos; I've often wondered why that wasn't part of the OS.

Randelph

cello · Post by **cello** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:40 pm

Randelph wrote:Bravo on having help built-in on the Kronos; I've often wondered why that wasn't part of the OS.

I agree with a lot of your points but feel I have to highlight this - OASYS has had this help feature from day one (2005).

So nothing new. Just another example to prove that Kronos = OASYS.

And Korg should not be encouraged to indulge in their notion that Kronos is a brand new product. IT IS NOT. It is a new iteration of OASYS, despite Korg saying they were not doing anything more for that platform. That is fact and not based on opinion.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:12 pm

cello wrote:...to release a new product in which it's (mostly) all fixed! And if you want to have your problem fixed you have to sell your now de-valued instrument (because of the fixed one) at a low price, then buy a mass-produced version with a couple of extras - which still costs $3,500 - having already spent up to $7,500

So Kronos buyers get a good version at $3,500 and O users, to get the 'fixed' version, have to spend (up to) $11,000 (ie OASYS new price + Kronos new price).

Dear Cello, I fully understand your all posts. I just don't get one thing: why you said OASYS got a "problem" to "fix". I mean OASYS is not bad at all, doesn't need to be "fixed" (repaired). Or did you mean it differently? Sorry for my English.

cello wrote:(Sorry everyone - just realised I sound like ozy!!!! )

Unfortunately, now yes.

RC-IA wrote:...when they discontinue it, i was so angry. but it's the instrument with the one i made my best tracks...

This is remarkable.

cello · Post by **cello** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:00 am

Hi Akos!

Not a problem with your English at all! It was me not being clear - by 'fixed' I meant in relation to the issues that O users told Korg about.

narf · Post by **narf** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:33 am

Hey RichF! I'm a big fan of your demos... awesome work man!

Anyways, are there plans of putting a virtual interface on the Korg website like you guys did for the OASYS and the M3?

bobbybee · Post by **bobbybee** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:53 pm

narf wrote:Hey RichF! I'm a big fan of your demos... awesome work man! Anyways, are there plans of putting a virtual interface on the Korg website like you guys did for the OASYS and the M3?

Stephen Kay, creator of KARMA, was responsible for doing the virtual interfaces and said it takes a lot of work [quite obviously]. He hasn't been contacted to do another, AFAIK.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:09 pm

cello wrote:by 'fixed' I meant in relation to the issues that O users told Korg about.

OK, but what issues. Indeed, we OASYS users gave huge feedback to Korg R&D, I think. Do you mean they've listened and improved Kronos based on that? What are those differences then? (I like the "Set List" for example but I don't think Korg developers needed our advice regarding it - they knew it already well themselves.)

Do we have a detailed list somewhere containing the proposed improvements by OASYS users that are obviously implemented in Kronos? That would be interesting.

I mean a table with columns like:
Proposer | Idea | Date | Link

This could be created using a wiki interface. Then everyone could add his notes himself if he thinks Korg used his original idea for Kronos development. I would be a memento just for fun. I think Karma-Lab Wiki could host it but maybe that's not the most appropriate place.

Or simply we could start a new thread collecting only our achieved ideas in Kronos. But I'm afraid other members (trolls?) could easily ruin it, so I vote for the wiki.

synthguy · Post by **synthguy** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:57 pm

cello wrote:the guys with the old car (the O) are now stuck with something that is almost worthless.

I'm sorry that your Oasys is almost worthless to you. But I could do you a favor and take that boat anchor off your hands for a generous 1000€.

But seriously, cello, your bitter exaggerated tirades have grown tiresome. I've noticed that Dan and Rich seem to have fled this thread, and we're answering each other's questions for many posts because, once again, you have turned this into a troll thread.

I think you've stated your case about one hundred times now, and I'm tired of seeing you and a couple of others ruining threads with endlessly repeating grouching.

Please, no more. I don't want to ignore your posts. I'm sure you're a better man than this in person. Let's be more like Akos and less like Ozy, how about it?