Love Affair With Yamaha Coming To an End

[amit]

I Came to Hardware Seq and Kronos after using Computers for a long time.
I now much prefer Kronos for getting the things down first and later do any post work on the puter.

There are still times when I need to have a DAW (mainly when using audio loop libraries (wav/rexworld/ethnic percussion) as Kronos lacks in that department (tempo synched audio loops like in ableton).

Other than that it's perfect. It's seq might be limited for some, but IMO it has just right balance of features so it does not get in your way with a ton of features.

Off the few things missing I would for one have loved having SysEx editing in midi event editor.

[Bachus]

I have a Motif XF and the Kronos too. They both are two different beast.
The Korg is better overall as it has a much better sampler, and 9 nine different synth engines. Need i say more?

The Kronos is top of the line workstation with different synthesizers onboard, the Motif XF is more like a great Rompler with very complex sampling capabilities and and probably a good sequencer, I don't use it.

The Montage sorta failed the workstation department, because that's what they wanted to design, a synthesizer and not a full blown workstation.

But Yamaha will upgrade the OS in a few years to turn it into a full blown workstation with a full blown sequencer and sampling capabilities in the future in sure. They may release a new workstation with full blown workstation capabilities and an OS update for current owners, or just an OS update for the current model.

It's a two tier sales program that these synth manufactures are employing to add revenue in selling two different synthesizers.

Korg did that with the Kronos. They sold a shoddy cheap scratchy plastic version of the Kronos in the beginning and then introduced the real version with wood side panels and better built electronics with an OS upgrade after they got everybody to buy the first cheap version first.

Yamaha is doing the same, they're selling a limited function version of the montage, and then they'll introduce a full blown version after they get everybody to buy this model first. Guaranteed.

Yamaha has several ranges of instruments... and i think they are moving the ballance between them a tiny bit around...

With the move from Motif to Montage, they are clearing up room for a move from the tyros more into workstation country... there will be a new instrument called Geros somewhere next year.. which will be kind of a workstaton mixing Tyros, Motif and Montge features up.. Very high end..

And this will create room for a new high end arranger with less workstation features.. a PSR pro series of some kind.. Many of the older arranger players have no need for all the advanced workstation features that made their way to the Tyros range.. but still have a lot of money to spend..


Offcourse this is just highly speculating... but i think this is what Yamaha is doing, rephasing their whole line of instruments to suit the needs of the players of the 21th century..

[jimknopf]

If they do so, they should better not mix up things completely, and throw things like the from my view completely misguided Montage concept into the market. Use and usability are defined by users, not by brain concepts from company desks. Roland already had to learn that lesson the hard way.

And "Geros" should better not turn out to be such a "geriatric" concept based on the stubbornness of Yamaha managers, but rather be based on the quite specific demands of keyboarders either using arrangers or playing in vivid band context.

[street]

hey Bachus, "Geros"? what are you talking about? never heard about it. what's true though, is that next year we'll probably see a successor to the Tyros 5.

and to everyone else,

regarding Montage, it's an amazing performance synth. I use the Kronos the same way. most users (well probably except forum lurkers) hardly use onboard sequencers anymore. Cubase is much better than any sequencer that ever was on any synth. EVERYBODY have DAWs at home nowadays. Yamaha probably understood there's not enough users for this.

also, you can't compare Yamaha with Roland. Yamaha has a huge hit now with Montage. try it - it's an incredible instrument.

[Bachus]

hey Bachus, "Geros"? what are you talking about? never heard about it. what's true though, is that next year we'll probably see a successor to the Tyros 5.

and to everyone else,

regarding Montage, it's an amazing performance synth. I use the Kronos the same way. most users (well probably except forum lurkers) hardly use onboard sequencers anymore. Cubase is much better than any sequencer that ever was on any synth. EVERYBODY have DAWs at home nowadays. Yamaha probably understood there's not enough users for this.

also, you can't compare Yamaha with Roland. Yamaha has a huge hit now with Montage. try it - it's an incredible instrument.

The name Geros has recently been licensed by Yamaha... we are asuming that its the name of the Tyros replacement.. Motif-Montage and Tyros-Geros makes lots of sense to me..

I think Yamaha licensed the Montage more then 1,5 year before release.. So it might take some time before we see a Tyros replacement... With both Peter Baartmans as well as Michel Voncken indicating that yamaha is spreading the release time between models wider... meaning 4 years is expected which also would indicate a late 2017 release for Geros.

[GregC]

hey Bachus, "Geros"? what are you talking about? never heard about it. what's true though, is that next year we'll probably see a successor to the Tyros 5.

and to everyone else,

regarding Montage, it's an amazing performance synth. I use the Kronos the same way. most users (well probably except forum lurkers) hardly use onboard sequencers anymore. Cubase is much better than any sequencer that ever was on any synth. EVERYBODY have DAWs at home nowadays. Yamaha probably understood there's not enough users for this.

also, you can't compare Yamaha with Roland. Yamaha has a huge hit now with Montage. try it - it's an incredible instrument.

The name Geros has recently been licensed by Yamaha... we are asuming that its the name of the Tyros replacement.. Motif-Montage and Tyros-Geros makes lots of sense to me..

I think Yamaha licensed the Montage more then 1,5 year before release.. So it might take some time before we see a Tyros replacement... With both Peter Baartmans as well as Michel Voncken indicating that yamaha is spreading the release time between models wider... meaning 4 years is expected which also would indicate a late 2017 release for Geros.

I don't know if it's worth waiting around for another expensive expensive arranger.

I have gotten use to ' rolling my own ' on the Kronos. Takes more time but I like how it sounds

[street]

I don't know if it's worth waiting around for another expensive expensive arranger.

I have gotten use to ' rolling my own ' on the Kronos. Takes more time but I like how it sounds

a dedicated arranger is a completely different thing than a synth (or a workstation for that matter although that term is kinda obsolete.. maybe even Korg would ditch it in the future).

you can't be a "one man band" with a Kronos. you need an arranger. Karma doesn't cut the bill here..

I still perform with the Tyros 3 and this thing is a beast. I didn't find enough with the Tyros 5 to upgrade (because I customized it too much and the soundset is not so different except some articulations) but if the next Tyros will be changed as much as Yamaha went with Montage I'll have to replace it. and I also must get myself a Montage too. damn

[GregC]

I don't know if it's worth waiting around for another expensive expensive arranger.

I have gotten use to ' rolling my own ' on the Kronos. Takes more time but I like how it sounds

you can't be a "one man band" with a Kronos. you need an arranger. Karma doesn't cut the bill here..

Not so.

It takes more time and some skill to recreate the parts. Once you learn the SEQ the sky is the limit. I am actually replacing the Karma parts I use to rely on

[kronoSphere]

Fortunately for us all Leornado da Vinci did not use an arranger when he painted Mona Lisa

[kday]

Korg...sold a shoddy cheap scratchy plastic version of the Kronos in the beginning and then introduced the real version with wood side panels and better built electronics with an OS upgrade after they got everybody to buy the first cheap version first.

This is all incorrect: (1) there aren't any significant differences in build quality between the various KRONOS versions; (2) not everybody likes wood side panels, and my 5-year-old original plastic ones aren't scratched at all*; (3) there's no difference in quality or functionality between the original and the updated electronics, Intel just discontinued the original m'board; (4) all OS upgrades work in the original KRONOS and are available at no cost from Korg...

df

*...although I would replace those plastic ends with Oasys-style ones if I could ever get hold of that guy in Germany...maybe I'll have to make my own...

The second version Kronos is said to contain better built less flimsy sliders and less plastic than the first version.

The first version Kronos was horribly cheap, there were many threads here even complaining of parts falling off. 1. was the rotary encoder. 2. Was the joystick top falling off. I went into a GC to play the Kronos, I played it for 30 mins and the joystick top fail off. There was an upgrade to some of the electronics also I heard.

The cheap scratchy plastic end panels were the best testimony to what they intended to build as the first run off.

I never bought the first version because it came out the door as cheap. Thanks God I waited because they updated that model and that's when I bought the Kronos 2.

Regarding Yamaha Montage, I'm about 100% sure they will upgrade the limited sequencer to a full blown sequencer like they did with past Motifs, by offering a better sampler and sequencer upgrade in an OS upgrade they did with the Motif XS/XF.

In about about 2-3 years, the Montage or a Montage II will have afull blown sequencer, and I'm sure a full blown sampler. Yamaha will upgrade this synth before introducing a totally new model.

[kday]

I have a Motif XF and the Kronos too. They both are two different beast.
The Korg is better overall as it has a much better sampler, and 9 nine different synth engines. Need i say more?

The Kronos is top of the line workstation with different synthesizers onboard, the Motif XF is more like a great Rompler with very complex sampling capabilities and and probably a good sequencer, I don't use it.

The Montage sorta failed the workstation department, because that's what they wanted to design, a synthesizer and not a full blown workstation.

But Yamaha will upgrade the OS in a few years to turn it into a full blown workstation with a full blown sequencer and sampling capabilities in the future in sure. They may release a new workstation with full blown workstation capabilities and an OS update for current owners, or just an OS update for the current model.

It's a two tier sales program that these synth manufactures are employing to add revenue in selling two different synthesizers.

Korg did that with the Kronos. They sold a shoddy cheap scratchy plastic version of the Kronos in the beginning and then introduced the real version with wood side panels and better built electronics with an OS upgrade after they got everybody to buy the first cheap version first.

Yamaha is doing the same, they're selling a limited function version of the montage, and then they'll introduce a full blown version after they get everybody to buy this model first. Guaranteed.

Yamaha has several ranges of instruments... and i think they are moving the ballance between them a tiny bit around...

With the move from Motif to Montage, they are clearing up room for a move from the tyros more into workstation country... there will be a new instrument called Geros somewhere next year.. which will be kind of a workstaton mixing Tyros, Motif and Montge features up.. Very high end..

And this will create room for a new high end arranger with less workstation features.. a PSR pro series of some kind.. Many of the older arranger players have no need for all the advanced workstation features that made their way to the Tyros range.. but still have a lot of money to spend..


Offcourse this is just highly speculating... but i think this is what Yamaha is doing, rephasing their whole line of instruments to suit the needs of the players of the 21th century..

I think Yamaha is gonna let this new Montage ride out for a few years. Then introduce a new OS or a Montage II that also updates the original Montage with all the missing features in the original.

[GregC]

The second version Kronos is said to contain better built less flimsy sliders and less plastic than the first version.

The first version Kronos was horribly cheap, there were many threads here even complaining of parts falling off. 1. was the rotary encoder. 2. Was the joystick top falling off. I went into a GC to play the Kronos, I played it for 30 mins and the joystick top fail off. There was an upgrade to some of the electronics also I heard.

The cheap scratchy plastic end panels were the best testimony to what they intended to build as the first run off.

.

oh. I get it. You are quoting from a 5 or 10 posts when the Kronos 61 came out.

And stuff gets abused at GC. This is nothing new.

I doubt anyone can say there was epic failure for the first 300 or 500 units.

Its pretty easy to dramatize and blow things out of proportion. I guess you want to run a re-hash of your version from way back. Not sure why this is relevant anymore.

[kday]

The second version Kronos is said to contain better built less flimsy sliders and less plastic than the first version.

The first version Kronos was horribly cheap, there were many threads here even complaining of parts falling off. 1. was the rotary encoder. 2. Was the joystick top falling off. I went into a GC to play the Kronos, I played it for 30 mins and the joystick top fail off. There was an upgrade to some of the electronics also I heard.

The cheap scratchy plastic end panels were the best testimony to what they intended to build as the first run off.

.

oh. I get it. You are quoting from a 5 or 10 posts when the Kronos 61 came out.

And stuff gets abused at GC. This is nothing new.

I doubt anyone can say there was epic failure for the first 300 or 500 units.

Its pretty easy to dramatize and blow things out of proportion. I guess you want to run a re-hash of your version from way back. Not sure why this is relevant anymore.

I never said it was an "epic failure" I said they made a cheap shoddy first model because aside from others, I myself witnessed a rotary dial and joystick just fall off brand new keyboards.

It was shoddy engineering no doubt about that.

[Derek Cook]

Hi,

As a Yamaha stalwart who felt Yamaha lost their way by going the Motif route (after CS80 DX7, SY77 et all/EX5/AN1x/FS1r), I got fed up waiting for Yamaha to do something to interest me and I jumped ship roughly two years ago to the Kronos (as a modern day EX5 in my view). I have not regretted it at all (I still have my classic Yammies of course - that list from SY77 onwards)

Can the Kronos do what you want. My first usage of it was for a synth duo that never came to fruition, sadly, but I was programming a combination of MIDI and Audio backing tracks that played in the Kronos Sequencer, for me to play over, and it worked like a dream. So it should fit your needs.

Of course what sounds you like makes opinions on how synth sounds pretty subjective, so it would be best to try one out. I spent an hour in a store with a pair of headphones as part of my Kronos buying decision, but I was impressed within 5 minutes.

I'd also suggest finding and downloading the PDF operator guide which is very comprehensive and will give you an idea of the deep capabilities on offer.

[jimknopf]

I never said it was an "epic failure" I said they made a cheap shoddy first model because aside from others, I myself witnessed a rotary dial and joystick just fall off brand new keyboards.
It was shoddy engineering no doubt about that.

I doubt very much what you say, owning a Kronos 73 with serial no. 74.

The only thing I had immediately replaced (at no costs for me) was the original jog wheel. And I preferred to exchange the fan with a silent one. That's all. Else my first generation Kronos still is in top shape after all these years, no crashing problems or whatever. And the best thing is: the hardware allowed me to install every of the many stunning OS upgrades, up to the present OS. In connection with the superior overall Kronos concept, these definitiley mean a value high above anything Yamaha offers so far to me.

The plastic ends have NEVER been any problem and still are completely ok, despite some small scratches from transports. I also had no keybed problems, like they occured in a later charge of the first generation Kronos.

It is probably no bad idea to be a bit more cautious with generalizing dramatic verdicts about the whole first Kronos generation, which I as a very early user certainly can't confirm at all.